Regional Airlines taking pay cuts?

[flight-crew]

With all these regionals taking pay cuts and Mesa signing a horrible contract, I'm still trying to figure out why in the H.ELL any one would vote yes for such a thing!?

If any members on this board have been at a regional that took a pay cut and voted yes, please explain.

 

[328dude]

Scare Tactics, FNG"s, and pilot's with morgages just to name a few. God luck on your quest.

 

[Lance501]

328 dude nailed it on the head, You have to types of pilots that will take any pay cuts they have to. Lifers and FNG's. These cocks will kill any attemp at a better quality of life.
The lifers know if they lose their jobs they will have to start over as F/O's at some other half a$$ paying regional. Its a lot easier to tell that family your going to make a little less for a coulpe of years and dangle that carrot (i.e. gentelmens agreements, RJ's on the property, Growth and job security) for the family about how good it will be in eight years when we get to go back to the table in a better economy. That could be the best lie in aviation.
The FNG's are just so excited to have an airline job they can't hardly believe it. They might be able to finally pay off those flying loans. They don't want to go back on the street. They can't see that they have the most to gain from a better contract and the least to lose. They probably haven't been gone long enough from their old job that they couldn't get it back. And if they do get kicked back out on the street they are more marketable for another regional job.
We need to pull our heads out and quit working for less. If you haven't noticed mainline jobs are disapearing faster than the European spotted otter and being replaced with growth and security at chitty places. Happy Retirement........ Enjoy your security.


Where did they put the spell check for this thing?

 

[Publishers]

Because

Because if you do not restructure your pay packages, another airline will and take your business away.

There is a repricing of flying talent going on and no one is immune, vote or not.

 

[Cargoboy]

I have a question for you here. Let's say I am a new hire in this market and right after or even during training I find out that the pilots are going to strike or the contract that is dangled if front us has pay cuts written all over. As a new guy am I even allowed to vote on such a thing? I was wondering how I would have any say at all. Not that I don't agree that we need to make things right for pilots and we really need to stand up for a descent wage that is liveable.
AND if I am allowed to vote why aren't the more senior or pilots who want to have a liveable wage doing more to talk with pilots to reject the contraact. I can see where one would be terrified about there job but if as a whole you stood up for it wouldn't that show the company...hey we need to re negotiate for something better.
I am not there yet but one of things why right now I am picky about which airline I want to submit a resume to is I don't want to be put immed. into a position of having to make life altering decisions when I would be so lucky and happy to just be there.
Yes I have a family and a mortgage and I am ready to make the step to the commuter. AND I guess I am ready or need to get ready to be broke......how unfortunate for all us.
Good luck to us all!!!!

 

[328dude]

Senior guys want to protect what ever retirement they have and would rather be crapped on for the last few years of their job than risk losing the 500 bucks a year in their 401.

 

[MTorbust]

off topic sorry.... but

Cargoboy, where did you get your icon whipping icon icon?! Awesome.

 

[Monty Burns 1]

Cargoboy: Generally speaking, as a new hire pilot, you are considered probationary for your first year on property not only for the company but also the union. Most unions will not allow you to vote until you are off probation and are a "card carrying, DUES PAYING member".
Most first year pilots are considered "apprentice" members which means you get the fruits of the contract, but you don't pay dues and you cannot vote, even on a contract.
Of course, there are always exceptions, but this is generally the way it is.
Good luck!

 

[blott]

Yo Cargo...

At CHQ we are teamsters, you can(and better) vote on probation.

 

[Cargoboy]

Thanks for the info.
My friend just got hired at CHQ no class date yet and I know they just voted to strike.
I figured though that at most airlines you wouldn't be able to vote since you are a new hire and way to impressionable and nervouse to even attempt to go against the grain.


I go the ICon whipping Icon at www.hotbar.com They have a bunch of them you jyust have to look around for a bit in the right area.
Cargoboy

 

[nimtz]

Re: Because

Because if you do not restructure your pay packages, another airline will and take your business away.

You know what, not once yet has this actually happened Mr. Management. All the suits have done is use this as a scare tactic and so far all of us challenged have bent over and asked for it deep and hard. I hope my pilot group accepts this challenge in our contract and you know what if we lose out, BIG F*CKING DEAL! Oh No, I couldn't imagine losing my 25K a year job where I am expected to live in one of the most expensive areas in the country! I'll give the company whatever it needs, just PLEASE let me fly a jet!
BS, we need to draw a line in the sand and dare you bean counters to cross it. Watching Sr. Management pocket bonuses while pleading poverty makes me sick! If doesn't affect everyone of you just as much, then you are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

 

[stillaboo]

I hope my pilot group accepts this challenge in our contract and you know what if we lose out, BIG F*CKING DEAL!

It seems every pilot on this board says "I'll never take concessions", "I'd strike or lose my job before working for crap wages", etc.

The facts speak for themselves: every non-LCC mainline and major regional has either taken a cut, signed a contract that doesn't raise their rates enough (it is never enough in the eyes of another pilot group), or is facing heavy pressure to do so. If everyone on this board weren't all talk, this wouldn't be happening.

Illusions of grandeur are mere illusions: the race to the bottom is a race everyone is actively participating in.

-Boo!

 

[Caveman]

"It seems every pilot on this board says "I'll never take concessions", "I'd strike or lose my job before working for crap wages", etc.

The facts speak for themselves: every non-LCC mainline and major regional has either taken a cut, signed a contract that doesn't raise their rates enough (it is never enough in the eyes of another pilot group), or is facing heavy pressure to do so. If everyone on this board weren't all talk, this wouldn't be happening.

Illusions of grandeur are mere illusions: the race to the bottom is a race everyone is actively participating in."

Not quite true. The Comair pilot group made a loud and unanimous statement for 89 days. So far we haven't given back anything nor has management asked for it.....yet. If they do seek concessions I for one will tell them to shut it down....again. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the other 1700+ pilots at Comair would agree with me.

 

[nimtz]

The facts speak for themselves: every non-LCC mainline and major regional has either taken a cut, signed a contract that doesn't raise their rates enough (it is never enough in the eyes of another pilot group), or is facing heavy pressure to do so. If everyone on this board weren't all talk, this wouldn't be happening.

Illusions of grandeur are mere illusions: the race to the bottom is a race everyone is actively participating in.

-Boo!

Watching the fostering of an economic turnaround plus seeing that Goldman believes the airline I work on behalf will be profitable this quarter, I will pass on your race to the bottom theory. Any continuation of the race to the bottom is due the majority being uniformed and completely ignorance. If this continues beyond the damage already done, then our generation of pilots should be ashamed to call ourselves professionals.
BTW, my pilot group (both mainline and express) has not taken a pay cut of any sort since 9-11 and the company has not even considered this as an option during our current contract talks. Watch your generalizations, they make you look uninformed and ignorant...

 

[N2264J]

Keep a good thought

The Comair pilot group made a loud and unanimous statement for 89 days. So far we haven't given back anything nor has management asked for it.....yet. If they do seek concessions I for one will tell them to shut it down....again. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the other 1700+ pilots at Comair would agree with me.

While it is always management's perogative to engage in whipsaw, it seems to me the Delta MEC will be very hard pressed to include Comair or ASA in their concessionary bargaining equation like the US Airways MEC did to Express or APA did to Eagle because of the Judge's decision.

 

[stillaboo]

Watching the fostering of an economic turnaround plus seeing that Goldman believes the airline I work on behalf will be profitable this quarter . . . I will pass on your race to the bottom theory.

Mine's one of the darlings of 'The Street', and it's stock has almost trippled in value since March. Goldman upgraded it to 'in-line' April 1st. Since then, it's up 76%. In-line my a$$! Show's how much Goldman knows.
The race to the bottom isn't my theory, it's the board's theory. I think it's a market of supply and demand. There's a huge supply for airline pilot jobs, and negative demand. Downward pressure on wages is obvious. And since most pilots on this board seem to believe that the reason their group didn't get the wage they desired is b/c another group didn't get the wage they should have gotten, the cycle will continue until some group steps up to the plate and refuses to take a pay cut, and then refuses to work for less than a substatial raise from their current 'un-acceptable' wage. CMR recently did this. CHQ is at least feigning to be trying the same thing. Everyone else is nowhere to be found.

BTW, my pilot group has not taken a pay cut of any sort since 9-11 and the company has not even considered this as an option during our current contract talks. Watch your generalizations, they make you look uninformed and ignorant... [/B]

So what? Mine got a raise after 9/11, improvements in every section of the contract but one, which stayed the same.

Mine also is the subject of more flames on this board of 'informed and un-ignorant' pilots than all others combined. Go figure.

This forum is an easy way for pilots to vent their frustrations. There is education going on too, but I just think it's totally hipocracy when regional pilots say that they aren't paid enough to fly airplanes, and then promptly blame another group of pilots for their problems. Each pilot works under a contract their group voted for. Don't try to blame someone else for the results of YOUR vote. If you aren't paid enough, then stop dragging the wage down and refuse to work for less than what you deserve. All the ignoramouses at your company vote for concessions to an already pitiful wage - well, quit and go work somewhere where the pilots respect themselves. By staying in your job, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I stand by my statement:
The facts speak for themselves: every non-LCC mainline and major regional has either taken a cut (Wisky, ACA, etc), signed a contract that doesn't raise their rates enough (SKYW, Mesa), or is facing heavy pressure to do so (CHQ, CMR). If everyone on this board weren't all talk, this wouldn't be happening.

Do we really believe that the 'educated and informed' pilots on this board are the 20-30% of the group that's always voting against concessions?

Maybe I'm wrong. Just trying to further the discussion.

-Boo!