Regional airlines are doomed!

[Freebrd]

The rest of the healthier legacies will have stronger scope. Profits don't allow for scope concessions.
Godspeed!
The OYSter

haha you sure hope so huh Oys

 

[enuffalready]

Pilots Know everything! Just ask them! Marketing, flying, engineering, route planning! All because they went to ERAU, the Harvard of Aviation! It's just so amazing! If you want to know what's wrong with the industry, just ask the pilots! ;-)

not exclusive to ERAU... just ask any Navy or Air Force guy and they will give you the same reply... marketing..check.... route structure...check... utilization...check.... what qualifies them?.. just ask em....... landed on a carrier or flew a 130 at night....

 

[enuffalready]

I've been here 22 and have watched the results of management attempting to cater to the whims of the general public. If you give children everything they want you end up with spoiled brats. The same holds true with the flying public. Look what we've given them so far:

.

But, by all means, lets give the public everything they want, even if it is economically and/or physically impracticable.


However, I understand your need, as an RJ CA, to defend an economically unviable system.

.... nobody ever said give the customers everything they want mr straw man.....after 22 years in the airline you need to learn that customer service is not just thanking people as they deplane

as far as an unviable system........ i hate to break it to you.. but the airlines themselves are unviable....especially labor.... if pilots had to compete for their existing jobs like our passengers that you begrudge do for theirs, we would ALL be either of out of work or taking pay cuts...

but dont worry.. the next time that passenger rushes from the meeting he just had trying to land a contract for more work and attempts to make another call .......or heaven for forbid, checks in late..... i will make sure that they understand in no uncertain terms that his captain is very upset and thinks we should cut frequency or just raise fares to cover pay resets to post 2001 levels...... and while i am at it.. .i will ask him to call the department of labor and rid ourselves of those pesky EEOC regulations so we can hire some HOT stews

 

[Fubijaakr]

Its just that attitude that keeps getting you rejections and will keep you flying for a regional for the rest of your career.

 

[enuffalready]

Its just that attitude that keeps getting you rejections and will keep you flying for a regional for the rest of your career.

I know it is impossible for you to comprehend, after spending all your life wanting to fly for a major/legacy... a goal i have a healthy respect for..........that there are others who do not aspire to follow your footsteps

 

[ex j-41]

Maturity is realizing that peoples career and life priorities change. I doubt that many start at a regional thinking it will be their last stop. You can't blame someone for making a decision to stop spending time thinking about the next step and just smelling the roses.
Spending time with your new born or 6 year old is a whole lot more important than commuting to philly just so you can fly a bigger airplane.

 

[Freebrd]

Maturity is realizing that peoples career and life priorities change. I doubt that many start at a regional thinking it will be their last stop. You can't blame someone for making a decision to stop spending time thinking about the next step and just smelling the roses.
Spending time with your new born or 6 year old is a whole lot more important than commuting to philly just so you can fly a bigger airplane.

Spot on!

 

[silver02ex]

Its just that attitude that keeps getting you rejections and will keep you flying for a regional for the rest of your career.

Wow, real classy. Do you even know anything about the guy before making that comment? Some people are happy where they are, having a good QOL, and get the spend more time with family. I have many good friends who will be a lifer at a regional, because its something they HAVE to do for their family. Maybe you can go to the charter, or CFI board and give those guys a hard time, about not getting to make it beyond where they are.

 

[On Your Six]

haha you sure hope so huh Oys

Sad but true, just read the article. I guess everyone else is wrong but you! Gas prices aren't going up either according to you?.... Every extra penny makes your operation less efficient. Throw in the new Fatigue/Rest/hiring rules coming in 2 years, and your airlines will have to transform into something different. Higher profits at the legacies again will not help your cause, since management has less to bargain with, and the pilots don't have to give up anything to get a wage increase. Enjoy Rangoon.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

Maturity is realizing that peoples career and life priorities change. I doubt that many start at a regional thinking it will be their last stop. You can't blame someone for making a decision to stop spending time thinking about the next step and just smelling the roses.
Spending time with your new born or 6 year old is a whole lot more important than commuting to philly just so you can fly a bigger airplane.

How about making enough money to send that 6 year old to college? Shouldn't that count? I would get started as fast as possible if you haven't already. First year at a legacy may be less than a Captain at a Regional, but it sure does increase in a hurry after that. First year pay now at DL is $59 an hour, with 2nd year on the bus at $86, and third year at $101. We have a new contract coming due this year (rumors have it that RA wants a deal, and that means some sort of pay raise obviously with $1.2 billion profit the last couple years), and next year there should be hiring. Sticking it out a regional may give you better QOL now for a few more years, but with the way the Regional industry is going and the instability and high gas prices out there, I would take your "hit" now with QOL for a couple/few years so you can have more time with your early teenage son/daughter as a lineholder, making more money at a legacy. Hiring will happen sooner than later. Don't miss out.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[dojetdriver]

The rest of the healthier legacies will have stronger scope. Profits don't allow for scope concessions.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

So when UAL 2000 and DAL 2001 contracts came during high profits, what caused the scope relaxation?

 

[701EV]

If the airlines don't listen to the passengers. Why in the HELL did Delta spend millions of dollars putting First Class Seats in CRAPPY, TO SMALL, and INEFFICIENT CRJ 700's and 900's?

Just wondering?

 

[On Your Six]

So when UAL 2000 and DAL 2001 contracts came during high profits, what caused the scope relaxation?

Maybe you were in Highschool at the time, but 9-11 caused a huge disruption in profits, and then Gulf War II caused a huge oil spike that many legacies weren't ready for, while Southwest was with their hedges. They don't have those hedges now, and they also don't do bag fees (except at Airtran they do for now), so they don't really enjoy those fees. Most legacies, besides AA, are very profitable now, and they are paying down debt and getting ready to hand some money back to the pilots when the contracts come due. Scope relaxation only can happen in distressed times, like AA is having now. Don't bet your future on possible scope relaxation via BKs. Consolidation makes that tougher to achieve.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

If the airlines don't listen to the passengers. Why in the HELL did Delta spend millions of dollars putting First Class Seats in CRAPPY, TO SMALL, and INEFFICIENT CRJ 700's and 900's?

Just wondering?

It seems like they still wanted to have premium fares on those planes for their best customers that have to fly on those planes anyway. Some routes might be too big for a mainline plane, but the customers still want bigger seats and more comfort.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Freebrd]

(rumors have it that RA wants a deal, and that means some sort of pay raise obviously with $1.2 billion profit the last couple years), The OYSter

haha! yeh RA wants a deal, no doubt about that except it's not one you'll like, a small pay raise in exchange for relaxation of scope. AA will pave the way w/ bigger jets for AE so the rest of the airlines will follow, just like sheep everytime one of them changes something (like paint jobs) the rest follow. But I sincerely hope you can AT LEAST hold onto present scope as I'm anxious to leave Rangoon for the big jets in the future! Godspeed! :laugh:

 

[Freebrd]

9-11 caused a huge disruption in profits, and then Gulf War II caused a huge oil spike that many legacies weren't ready for,

Of course it couldn't be DALPA didn't want to fly those small jets right Oys? :smash:

getting ready to hand some money back to the pilots when the contracts come due.
Godspeed! The OYSter

Oh yeah buddy, RA just gonna hand over those profits to the pilots! Rightttttttttttttttttt!

 

[dojetdriver]

Maybe you were in Highschool at the time

Nope, I was in the air on the way to LGA at the time.

but 9-11 caused a huge disruption in profits,

Really? No sh1t Sherlock?

and then Gulf War II caused a huge oil spike that many legacies weren't ready for, while Southwest was with their hedges. They don't have those hedges now, and they also don't do bag fees (except at Airtran they do for now), so they don't really enjoy those fees. Most legacies, besides AA, are very profitable now, and they are paying down debt and getting ready to hand some money back to the pilots when the contracts come due. Scope relaxation only can happen in distressed times, like AA is having now. Don't bet your future on possible scope relaxation via BKs. Consolidation makes that tougher to achieve.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

Sorry, but you need to go back and look at contract 2000 at UAL and contract 2001 at DAL. Scope was relaxed at both carriers. That's before "distressed times", before 9/11, and before the BK's.

You can't argue that scope has NEVER been relaxed unless under a company's financial duress. That's just not accurate or true. Anyway you try to spin/argue it is simply your own ignorance of the FACTS of what happened. Plain and simple.

 

[silver02ex]

How about making enough money to send that 6 year old to college? Shouldn't that count? I would get started as fast as possible if you haven't already. First year at a legacy may be less than a Captain at a Regional, but it sure does increase in a hurry after that. First year pay now at DL is $59 an hour, with 2nd year on the bus at $86, and third year at $101. We have a new contract coming due this year (rumors have it that RA wants a deal, and that means some sort of pay raise obviously with $1.2 billion profit the last couple years), and next year there should be hiring. Sticking it out a regional may give you better QOL now for a few more years, but with the way the Regional industry is going and the instability and high gas prices out there, I would take your "hit" now with QOL for a couple/few years so you can have more time with your early teenage son/daughter as a lineholder, making more money at a legacy. Hiring will happen sooner than later. Don't miss out.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

So I have to make it to the majors to send my kids to college or to make the big bucks? I'm under 30 years old and both of my kid's college funds are taken care of because of my rental properties. I have less than 10 years to go on my mortgage, and i'm not worried about the future of the regionals, since this is not my primary source of income. Just becuase someone wants to stay at the regionals doesn't mean they don't have enough money to retire or send their kids to college. Maybe these guys have a wife that makes 2x the amouth they do, we just don't know.

 

[ken]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...es-dwindle-as-delta-hub-ousts-turboprops.html

 

[trainer8]

How about making enough money to send that 6 year old to college? Shouldn't that count? I would get started as fast as possible if you haven't already. First year at a legacy may be less than a Captain at a Regional, but it sure does increase in a hurry after that. First year pay now at DL is $59 an hour, with 2nd year on the bus at $86, and third year at $101. We have a new contract coming due this year (rumors have it that RA wants a deal, and that means some sort of pay raise obviously with $1.2 billion profit the last couple years), and next year there should be hiring. Sticking it out a regional may give you better QOL now for a few more years, but with the way the Regional industry is going and the instability and high gas prices out there, I would take your "hit" now with QOL for a couple/few years so you can have more time with your early teenage son/daughter as a lineholder, making more money at a legacy. Hiring will happen sooner than later. Don't miss out.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

So, this is your formula: Career at a major = $$$$, commute, AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome), and son(s) or daughter(s) who grows up with you absent while you live the dream...

OR...

QOL at a Regional, reasonable pay, live at home, gets to coach little league, takes wife and daughter out for dates systematically.

The $$$$ is cool and so is the Company, but "a fool and his $$$$ are soon parted."

Statistically, which one do you think most choose, and statistically, what do you think the outcomes are?

I think you know...

 

[On Your Six]

haha! yeh RA wants a deal, no doubt about that except it's not one you'll like, a small pay raise in exchange for relaxation of scope. AA will pave the way w/ bigger jets for AE so the rest of the airlines will follow, just like sheep everytime one of them changes something (like paint jobs) the rest follow. But I sincerely hope you can AT LEAST hold onto present scope as I'm anxious to leave Rangoon for the big jets in the future! Godspeed! :laugh:

RA has never missed an amendable date for a contract, and he is proud of that supposedly. That doesn't mean he'll give away the farm, but there's a good chance it will get done. One thing everyone noticed on the conference call though was his apparent giddiness about dumping Saabs and more 50 seat RJs. Looks like he may feel the same way about those planes, way too inefficient. Btw, the 70/76 seaters have hit the limit, and it won't be increased, which is one reason you are in Vietnam. That's crazy. Do you miss Dayton, OH yet? Heck, it's probably a lot like Da Nang anyway. Cheers!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[SnowBoardBum]

Both options sound like ******************** to me.....just saying.

 

[On Your Six]

So, this is your formula: Career at a major = $$$$, commute, AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome), and son(s) or daughter(s) who grows up with you absent while you live the dream...

OR...

QOL at a Regional, reasonable pay, live at home, gets to coach little league, takes wife and daughter out for dates systematically.

The $$$$ is cool and so is the Company, but "a fool and his $$$$ are soon parted."

Statistically, which one do you think most choose, and statistically, what do you think the outcomes are?

I think you know...

That's up to you, but don't complain if your airline shrinks and you miss a hiring wave that could get you to where you are now a couple years down the road. The stagnation of now and the past decade will soon catch up to massive retirements at most legacies. Getting on at the beginning of a wave could make all the difference in the World. But again, it's up to you. Your regionals though don't have great growth prospects.



Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

So I have to make it to the majors to send my kids to college or to make the big bucks? I'm under 30 years old and both of my kid's college funds are taken care of because of my rental properties. I have less than 10 years to go on my mortgage, and i'm not worried about the future of the regionals, since this is not my primary source of income. Just becuase someone wants to stay at the regionals doesn't mean they don't have enough money to retire or send their kids to college. Maybe these guys have a wife that makes 2x the amouth they do, we just don't know.

Great, if you are a landlord and have many rentals, by all means stay there and become the next Donald Chump. If you're like the rest of us out there, then move up to mainline for better pay and benefits compared to the Regionals. It may take a couple years to make up the pay, but then it will be a lot better. And, it doesn't look like the Regionals will be getting any better anytime soon, thanks to new rest/fatigue rules, etc. Have fun out there Donald!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[JettBoii]

Fubi...who do you fly for?

 

[On Your Six]

Oh yeah buddy, RA just gonna hand over those profits to the pilots! Rightttttttttttttttttt!

I just got a $2300 profit sharing check on the 14th. How'd you do?


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[Freebrd]

I just got a $2300 profit sharing check on the 14th. How'd you do?
Godspeed!The OYSter

why I got about 1/23rd of that from lovely Skywest

 

[On Your Six]

touching.....

Need a tissue? What time is it now in Hanoi? What day is it?

Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[silver02ex]

Need a tissue? What time is it now in Hanoi? What day is it?

Godspeed!


The OYSter

OYS, you need you give up. If the guy enjoys what he is doing then let him be. So he doesn't take your advice, you then go and bash what he's doing?

"Enjoy your time in Vietnam, blah blah blah." Get over it, I don't recall anyone asking for your advice, but you give it to them anyways. Let the regionals guys do what they want in life, even if it doesn't agree with you.

Oh also, no need to call me Donald. You want to start calling names because i'm secure with my finance, even as an RJ FO? So what, If I get a fixed in come, even when it doesn't come from aviation. Unlike you, I don't have to worry about what's going to happen with my company 10, 15,20 years from now. Even if there was another 9-11 I still don't have to worry.

 

[outerlimits]

This is something I've long since argued. Skywest Inc. has some big decisions to make over the next few years. The influx of cash from the mainline partners will not increase. So we're boxed in. Scope will absolutely not relax. I'd bet everything in my 401K, my savings, and investments on that- the ship has sailed. Nobody is going to relax scope to facilitate larger airframes at the regional level. Skywest will be forced to survive by "going it alone" as a stand alone carrier. The question is when, and how, that this will happen. The typical feeder style regional business model a dead and dying one. The regional airline industry WILL be forced to change.

You will end up a very poor man.