Regarding UAL Troubles

[thebluto]

BACK TO MY QUESTION

Folks:
I really tried to steer the thread in a different direction. No one can change any hiring process that happened in the past, whether it needed to be changed or not. Just as no one can change the fact that 19 hijackers permanently changed the airline industry and the New York City skyline, plus a lot of lives lost and changed.

My question is what happens next? Does anyone have any hard facts about UAL's finances? What will it take for them to survive? Is there an economic "D-Day" that will occur in the near future that permanently decides UAL's fate?

 

[acarpe3448]

I don't have any particular knowledge of, or interest in United's preference for certain applicants. My only thaught on this subject is as follows. I interviewed with United in the late 90s and I have to say from my own personal experience that the HR lady and the Captain that interviewed me were the most unprofessional, outright rude a$$ Ho$$$ that I have ever run across. I had been told by friends that had interviewed there before that at some point in the interview that they liked to put you under some stress to see how you handle it. This went way beyond stress test. This was outright abuse of their position. I interviewed at three other airlines before going to Delta, and I must say that they were all very professional and very nice people. The way it is pretty much everywhere except United. I hope you guys keep flying, as a furloughed pilot I know it sucks. But if anyone at United has to loose their jobs I would love to see your HR and pilot interviewers signing up for unemployment benefits. Tell them to give me a call, I'll tell them how it is done.

 

[Redtailer]

xXpress1, please don't quote me on this one but I was told by an HR rep that when they pulled from the stacks that they did it like a card game. Pulled 1 from the top of each stack for the interview and started over again until they got their desired number.

At the time United was interviewing 1000 pilots per year so you can imagine how many times they pulled from each stack.

I do not agree with you that it was legalized discrimination, but it was an effort to right a wrong. Like I said a while ago, no one was in competition with a minority except another minority. That could be both a plus for a minority and a minus depending on who was in the stack. If you were in the minority stack than you received roughly 1 out of 15 interviews. Those are not good odds depending on what was happening at the time.

I also think this thread is relevant to United's future. Because whether you agree with the system or not it will still be in place when they start hiring again so it helps to understand how they do it.

acarpe3448:

You got your wish. They cleaned house except for 1 or 2 people in 2000.

You don;t have to be an HR Guru to understand the concept of "competitively qualified", it's pretty simple, really. A 450tt piston twin driver is not competitively qualified. Can't you just concede that obvious point? And it's not a "second-hand story", I can name names of half a dozen I know personally. My College had a UAL internship program, so believe me, I saw this crap firsthand for four years.

My point is qualifications are relative to timing. You don't have to debate me, just ask any senior Captain that has been around for 30 years or more. In the late 60's early 70's the airlines needed people BADLY. They literally were taking people off the street with NO time, had them get some hours and get a multi-engine rating and then they were placed in the right seat of a B-707 or larger with less than 250hrs. I guess they weren't qualified either. Oh no wait, they were white males, that's ok then. There were hundreds more experienced black males that were not hired aka Tuskegee Airmen. Very few if any made it in to the airlines.

I'm not worried about anyone. Well, I take that back. I am worried about you, a little. Do us all a favor, and have a little face-to-face with a mental health professional, would you? Be sure to bring up your need to demonize those who disagree with you, and your deep-seated hatred for white males . . . . .

Anything else is "a lie"? So much for debate and discourse. Obviously, with you it is just a waste of time, since everyone else's opinion is "a lie"?

So many personal attacks, that's the sign of someone who has lost his point and cannot concede. Everything I gave you can be backed up with hard facts opposed to rumors and stories. If you do not believe how United hires ask Kit Darby, President of AIRInc.
If you don't like the way they do it than tough, but that's no reason to personally attack someone.

Oh and I don't have a "deep-seated hatred for white males". I hate it when people try to use the excuse that they didn't get hired because of X group or Y group. There is so much misinformation that goes around about minorities in this industry it is disgusting and people tend to believe the worst of it without even bothering to check the facts.

Please tell me when was the last time YOU had to take 6 checkrides in your first 6 months at an airline even though you did nothing wrong, but the only reason it was done because you were a minority and others hated that fact? The Chief Pilot finally had enough and told the pilot to just swap bases and he was removing all of the letters from the pilot's file. No one should have to go through that. That was 2 years ago.

 

[embdrvr]

Kind of sad how the whole story began isn't it? Think back to the days when all you needed was a Comm ticket with wet ink and UAL would train you the rest of the way. Then consider how UAL and other airlines of course would not hire vets like the Tuskeegee Airmen. That's what gets to me. Those guys risked life and limb, distinguished themselves in battle, and they couldn't get a job.
It doesn't make the reverse discriminatory practices of the 90's right but it's important to realize why things like equal opportunity hiring practices came about.

 

[flx757]

This entire thread has about as much relevance to anything as does this one.

 

[trainerjet]

Kid Char, it looks like you might be at JetBlue, what a great job!

A quick check of his posts reveal he is not at jetBlue. Besides, their screening process does a good job of weeding out the d!ckheads. My guess is he's either at Ryan or USA 3000.

 

[Ty Webb]

Red Tail-

Ever take a Logic course? Apparently not, because your "reasoning" defies any semblance of logic:


In the late 60's early 70's the airlines needed people BADLY. They literally were taking people off the street with NO time, had them get some hours and get a multi-engine rating and then they were placed in the right seat of a B-707 or larger with less than 250hrs. I guess they weren't qualified either.

The issue is "competitively qualified" . . . recruiting minorities at a lower experience level than the rest of the applicants is discriminating against the "non minority" candidates.

If you do not believe how United hires ask Kit Darby, President of AIRInc.

I suspected you were using sources like Kit. Anyone else rolling on the floor over this one?


Oh and I don't have a "deep-seated hatred for white males". I hate it when people try to use the excuse that they didn't get hired because of X group or Y group.

I don't think I have been discriminated against, but I saw firsthand the bizarre practices at UAL and I certainly have a right to voice my opinion about what I saw.

Please tell me when was the last time YOU had to take 6 checkrides in your first 6 months at an airline even though you did nothing wrong, but the only reason it was done because you were a minority and others hated that fact?

You have lost me here. If that happened to you, sorry, but from what I have observed from your writings in this forum, it seems very likely that it was your personality, not your gender or race that probably got you singled out.

In any event, it very apparent to me that UAL had some ridiculous hiring policies in effect during most of the 1990's. Hopefully, should they survive Chapter 11, they will have learned from those mistakes and move forward. Hopefully, you will do the same.

 

[Redtailer]

The issue is "competitively qualified" . . . recruiting minorities at a lower experience level than the rest of the applicants is discriminating against the "non minority" candidates.

Competitively qualified, once again as long as they meet the airline minimums then it is all good minority or not. What you fail to realize is that minorities were not the only ones being taken at or near those minimums, just the most visible. There were several others including interns, which by the way had their own stack as well, those with recommendations, and those whose parents worked there. If you're going to complain about one group you should complain about all of them, but because they are not an easy target why bother? Not to mention that there were a lot more of them than any minority group.
However, if I were to use your logic then United would hire starting from the highest time applicant (15,000 Hrs?) on down. Guess what, they would never get below 7000hrs. Last time I checked that wasn't an acceptable way to hire pilots due to several other factors.

You have lost me here. If that happened to you, sorry, but from what I have observed from your writings in this forum, it seems very likely that it was your personality, not your gender or race that probably got you singled out.

Again with the personal attacks? That says a lot about you.

No, it didn't happen to me. I have had other situations. It's easy to ignore the difficulties that a minority faces in this industry if you are not one. It's easy to sit back and complain about affirmative action when you are not the one being targeted on a daily basis by your peers. It's easy to cry "Reverse Discrimination!" when applying for a major airline job when you are not the one who cannot get a flight instructing or cargo job because of prejudices.
But these are facts most people either cannot see because of their position in society or turns a blind eye to.

The hiring practices were at United for a reason. The alternative was to leave the status quo. If that was done there would still be a very small percentage of minorities in the airlines today.

P.S. I made it to the majors on my qualifications not because I'm a minortiy.

 

[Ty Webb]

You say you made it to a major "on your own merits"?

Sad to say, we'll never know if that is true, will we? And therein lies part of the problem. . . .

 

[Redtailer]

One last thing:

I suspected you were using sources like Kit. Anyone else rolling on the floor over this one?

Where do you get your information from, a cracker jack box?

Everything you claimed is unsubstantiated rumor. If you really want to know how United hires here are just a few of the sources I referenced:

Kit Darby - United Pilot, President of AIRInc.

Capt. Bob Norris (Ret. United Pilot) - Interview service based in SFO with a staff of former United pilots who USED TO DO THE INTERVIEWS.

Cheryl Cage - If you don't know this one then you are a sad case.

That's just to name a few. Before you attack anyone, get your facts straight!!!!