Regarding UAL Troubles

[Kid Charlemagne]

Seeing the continuing problems UAL faces got me to wondering....

I'm sure we all remember UAL's hiring practices in the '90s. Many of us were completely disgusted by them. If you had 5,000+ hours and multiple type ratings (plus lots of PIC) but were a white male....you had a very small chance. But a minority or female with 1,200 hours and no PIC or turbojet time? They couldn't wait to hire you!! Seeing this go on, blatantly year after year, I made the decision not to even apply at UAL (even though I was highly qualified). Why would I even want to work at a carrier like that?? And looking back now, boy am I glad I made that decision!!!

I don't know how the senior pilots let the travesty continue for as long as they did. Guess they just turned a blind eye - the old "I've got mine" kinda attitude. So now it's interesting to see that United is in the worst shape of anyone and facing possible liquidation. Don't get me wrong - I don't want to see anyone out of a job, I now how bad that s-cks. But if any particular airline HAS to go under, I would say let it be the one who practiced the disgraceful hiring that UAL did in the '90s. All that mattered to them was PC, not fairness or even safety.

I would be interested to hear others' opinion on this topic. Did UAL bring this down on themselves? Will other airlines and their hiring depts. learn from this mess? And what will these now unemployed female and minority pilots do now - remember they are still relatively low time and have little to no PIC.

 

[furlough-boy]

I don't agree

Does it feel good to pat yourself on the back?

Your post makes no sense.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

What are you talking about??

Xxpress1 said:

After the turn around, expect the repeal of the Air Line Deregulation Act of 1978. This will allow for the return of excess with no need for profit. Southwest Airlines and the other "LCCs" will either fail with in one year or go out and by a bunch of 747s and fly them half empty to all corners of the world.


Xxpress,

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. SWA and other LCC buy 747s? That is complete nonsense. Never happen.

If you wanna post another reply, try this time to actually make some sense. And maybe try to address the topic at hand - namely, what led to the abomidable UAL hiring practices of the '90s and how did it affect the airline.....and what lesson other airlines should draw from this.

P.S. Did you used to fly for Longhorn? I see you flew the Jurassic Jet and your screen name made me wonder....

 

[fragglerock]

kid charle

Really intelligent sexist and racist remark. Who are you a captain for, again? I'm sure they would like to hear your views.

 

[luvthedc10]

I sit here and wonder why Uniteds troubles have anything to do with their hiring practices. The fact that they favored certain groups over others really doesn't mean much because in the whole grand scheme of things, I bet the % of minorities/women is relatively low in the United system despite popular belief. When you want to talk about unfair hiring practice why not talk about how sons of captains got three shots at a sim ride by the time they were 28, why not talk about how interns got two guaranteed interviews, why not talk about how Cecil at AA would give an interview to a guy that would cut his grass. Why not talk about how one of my friends got an interview with an airline cause he met some manager at a wedding??? You know, it is Uniteds choice in how they wanted to hire. Speaking as a person who has had all United mentors, all of them were white males, one of them is a 777 LCA at age 43, the rest got hired in their late 20's early 30's. One of my friends was also hired by United in 99 at 28 years old--no military, no intern, no family. I assume you must not have any friends working over there, however, if there is one generalization I can make, they are a fine group of people. So, did United practice disgraceful hiring, I'm sure it wasnt all fair, but then life is not fair either.

If you didn't apply at UAL, that was your decision, I respect that. However, to make a statement like there were no qualified white males hired in the 90's is obsurd. If you get a chance, look at the seniority list and count the amount of women per class. Speaking from a personal standpoint, I interned over at United when they were hiring in droves, each class contained a few women, a few minorites, a handful of regional guys and a handful of military guys. I went there too with the idea that United was more into unfair hiring yet I was pleasantly surprised to see the caliber of the ones that made it. Most all of them had captain time or military time, the ones that didn't were lucky, but were certainly the minority. Most of them made it through training just fine, they are safety orientated pilots just like anyone else.

I normally don't care that much about comments such as this post, but because I was treated so well over at UAL by their people i need to comment. There wasn't one time where an instructor didn't offer to take us in the sim for a couple of hours............those were all white males..............or let us jumpseat with them to observe ops...............those were all white males, or write a letter of recommendation................those were all white males. So, personally, I am glad to see how United hired pilots because most of them are really great and give back to others rather than take on the "I've got mine" mentality that you seem to think they have.

Good luck to UAL.

 

[trainerjet]

I believe xXpress1 was being sarcastic in response to your ridiculous post.

 

[FedEx]

I Don't want to have to agree with Kid, But,
he does have a point. Yes we all have friends at UAL, and there are a bunch of great guys and gals there. But how in the hell can they have a hiring practice like they did??? You can say that there are a bunch of White Males there, but what really pissed me off was that they had different qualifications depending on what your Race and Gender was. Tell me that wasn't blanted discrimination. How come all the females appilacations competed against only female applications? If my name would have been Racquel, I would have had an interview years ago. Don't get me wrong, I do not want to see UAL liquated. But it chapped my A.. to know that they had different hiring qualifications depending on your Race, Color, and Gender. That is Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[250scp]

Kid Charlemagne and FedEx,

You two clowns have got to be kidding me! Must have either been a couple of failed interviews or you received some "don't call us, we'll call you" letters. As a middle size white guy who got hired and subsequently furloughed by UAL, I'm here to say my class had 6/24 women and we were all causcausian. What does that mean? Probably not a lot but diversity was evident while I was at TK.

UAL will rise again and this board will again be looking for insights on how to get on with the company. Contracts are in place and their performance leads the industry.

Until you find the time to mature and finish waxing your pole, go finish your homework and get ready for H.S. on Monday.

 

[Ty Webb]

Their preferential hiring practices were ridiculous, but I think it was more a result of their chowder-headed management team, not a cause of it.

As for the PC dolt who threatened to "expose" the thread starter to his employer because his viewpoint doesn't agree with yours- what an idiotic response. Do you run to management anytime anyone says something in the cockpit that you don't agree with?

If you can't take the heat, stay off the message board.

Last, to anyone who really wants to believe that UAL didn;t have some egregious policies in the early and mid 1990's, consider the case of K.S., a female who graduated from my University in 1990. Hired with 450tt, and no experience in anything bigger than a piston twin, she was hired when there were a ton of former Braniff and Eastern pilots applying. . . . . . now, THAT made perfect sense. If you want more examples, I sure have 'em, and what I saw made me NOT apply, so don't even bother going there. . . . . .

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

A few more points

FedEx,

Right on my brotha! I agree with you, there is no excuse for UAL having a two track application and hiring system. I had no "in"....no father who was a captain there, no internship, etc. My dad was a plumber and my mom was a housewife. I worked mu butt off coming up through the ranks, it was quite a feat paying for a college education and flight training...then building all the hours, etc. But I know I am preaching to the choir, most of you reading this paid similar dues. I'm not griping about that - but it just frosts me that after all that dues-paying UAL penalizes me just for being a white male!! It's blatant discrimination and it's wrong.

Luvstoflythedc10,

Your experience of UAL seems completely removed from mine. But I respect your opinion and the fact that you posted a lucid, reasonable reply instead of the usual sarcasm on this board. But let me ask you a question: Why do so many in the industry have this view of UAL's hiring practices if it aint so? You see, I am not the first to say these things - it has been very obvious to many for years now. So why is that if there is no truth to it? And you can't accuse me of sour grapes, remember I never even APPLIED to United and truthfully I wouldn't have taken a job with them had they offered it to me.

Also, regarding your experience of how kindly you were treated by UAL folks - again, I have to disagree. I'm sure there are some folks there who are quite professional and couteous...I just haven't met them yet! Real quick example of what I'm talking about:

1. I get a United 737 in Chicago, trying to jumpseat home a few years ago. The flight is only half full. I'm standing up in the cockpit with my bags in hand, politely ask the female captain for a ride home. She looks at me like I'm some kinda nutjob and says "But we already have a jumpseater". I look over my shoulder at the 60 or 70 open seats and ask if there's any way she can help me out. She says no and KICKS ME OFF THE AIRPLANE! It leaves half-empty and I'm left standing at the jetway. Right there I resolved to never go out of my way for any UAL employee.

2. A co-worker of mine was jumpseating on United. The captain checks his ID, then insults my airline and our pay/benefits package. Totally unprofessional and uncalled for!

3. Just recently, I had a UAL jumpseater on my flight. I had multiple jumpseaters on this flight, so if I applied UAL's own policy from point #1 above...I wouldn't even have let him on the airplane!! But nice guy that I am, I let him on. So what does he do? He asks me how much our FO's and captains make!! I don't know about you, but the way I was raised you don't ask a stranger how much money they make - it's just rude. So I tried to be noncommittal....and he asks again, this time wanting to know our exact hourly rates!! Needless to say, I told this jack--s to grab a seat cause we were ready to go. In hindsight, I really wished I had kicked him off.

So to sum up, I am so grateful I decided I would never go to work for a dirtbag company like UAL. And while I don't wish liquidation on them, I have to say if it's gonna happen to somebody there's nobody better than United Airlines.

Sorry for the long post, had to vent a little. Just my 2 cents...