Recalled to XJ

[Yudso]

Just got the Fedex today. Just out of curiosity, how many furloughees will be returning to the new and improved Mesaba? I am not even going to waste a dollar at kinkos to fax my resignation to them.

 

[TAWS]

Not me.

 

[gnx99]

I am, but I wish I wasn't. If I was smart, I would have gone to Pinnacle right away upon furlough. I'd probably be captain in a couple years making almost as much as a Mesaba CRJ900 captain. I guess I'll hope for a Saab upgrade in the same time frame.... It's nice they don't even give us a class date. Just on or after April 2nd. That makes planning my life easier

I still can't see why anyone would come here now, unless they live in base.

• $21,000 Training Contract
• 7-10 year upgrade, depending on base.
• Terrible jet rates

 

[fowingman]

is the class in the beginning of april full? how about hte ned of april class, is that full? anyone know?

 

[FSIGRAD]

Got the letter today also. Not a chance in hell I'm going back. Great pilot group, management belongs in prison.

Yudso, saw you on the DEN bid, moving back out west?

 

[FlyingFerris]

I'm staying away from that black hole of aviation carears. Even after the addition of 35 CRJ 900's they're still down aircraft from when I left and with the top 1/3 not going anywhere ever, my upgrade will happen roughly between never, to never ever. That and the horrible rates both on pay and insurance is enough for me to steer clear.

 

[5ontheglide]

Just got the Fedex today. Just out of curiosity, how many furloughees will be returning to the new and improved Mesaba? I am not even going to waste a dollar at kinkos to fax my resignation to them.

New and Improved?
Effectively, after all the houplah of the last year and a half, they've: traded 36 4-engine jets for 36 bad canadian 2-engine jets, agreed to a worse contract, proven that their willing to work for less, health insurance premiums have sky-rocketed and still have the same criminal CEO and "SLT".
New and Improved?

Oh - no I am not going back.

 

[wmudriver]

I laughed when I got the recall notice. I want to write "&uck Off" on it and send in.

No way I'm going back. It was said earlier; awesome pilot group with a mgmt team that can burn in h3ll.

 

[xjgearbtch]

Guys beat your chest here all you want. Do the right thing and go the formal way for resignation. Remember with the PRIA records you could get burned when appling to another airline when they request your records from XJ. They slamed you once don't let them do it again.

 

[CptMurf]

I still can't see why anyone would come here now, unless they live in base.

• $21,000 Training Contract
• 7-10 year upgrade, depending on base.
• Terrible jet rates

Do not read into this that I am trying to sway awayone's decision, just straightning out some facts...

There is a $21,00 training contract payable if you leave within one year and a 3 year seatlock to trade FO positions (this doesn't keep you from upgrading, just trading FO to FO). These both in place under the old contract.

We do have 7 year FO's now, but with the aircraft deliveries, the upgrade time should drop to about 2 years. In fact, if attrition stays about the same, all the furloughs will be CA's by the last CRJ900 delivery.

The concessions that we took will snapback to the prior contract upon delivery of the 36th CRJ900 (the contract will extend at this time slightly too).

Furloughess will be paid a portion of the claim (into 401k). It doesn't make up for all the money lost or time, but it will be a sizeable chunk of money.

The reason for the April 2 or after class dates stems from the furlough recalls. They don't/won't know how many are returning until they start class, which is on April 2nd. The furloughs, not surprisingly, will get to go to class before the new hires.

 

[FlyingFerris]

We do have 7 year FO's now, but with the aircraft deliveries, the upgrade time should drop to about 2 years. In fact, if attrition stays about the same, all the furloughs will be CA's by the last CRJ900 delivery.

How do you figure that especially with that immovable 1/3 at the top of the seniority list? On top of the lost Avro's there were like what 10 Saabs as well as 1 CRJ taken off line and yet to be replaced by anything, so Mesaba will still be short aircraft from when we all got furloughed.

I think I'll stick with where I'm at now because I get the 2 year upgrade(maybe) as well as fly under a contract that's as good as the contract I used to fly at Mesaba.

As to telling them, yeah I would like to tell them where to shove it, but they'll get the polite thanks but no thanks letter back.

 

[SplitBar]

Do not read into this that I am trying to sway awayone's decision, just straightning out some facts...

There is a $21,00 training contract payable if you leave within one year and a 3 year seatlock to trade FO positions (this doesn't keep you from upgrading, just trading FO to FO). These both in place under the old contract.

We do have 7 year FO's now, but with the aircraft deliveries, the upgrade time should drop to about 2 years. In fact, if attrition stays about the same, all the furloughs will be CA's by the last CRJ900 delivery.

The concessions that we took will snapback to the prior contract upon delivery of the 36th CRJ900 (the contract will extend at this time slightly too).

Furloughess will be paid a portion of the claim (into 401k). It doesn't make up for all the money lost or time, but it will be a sizeable chunk of money.

The reason for the April 2 or after class dates stems from the furlough recalls. They don't/won't know how many are returning until they start class, which is on April 2nd. The furloughs, not surprisingly, will get to go to class before the new hires.

Plus, the 36 CRJ900's are just the start of the growth. When it is all said and done XJ will have a nice fleet of 900's. Pay no attention to all of the sour grapes coming from those who have moved on. XJ has/had it's issues but looking forward, it isn't a blad place to be now. 90% of the pi$$ing and moaning is from former XJers. Most guys at XJ now are pretty upbeat about whats ahead for us.

 

[CptMurf]

How do you figure that especially with that immovable 1/3 at the top of the seniority list? On top of the lost Avro's there were like what 10 Saabs as well as 1 CRJ taken off line and yet to be replaced by anything, so Mesaba will still be short aircraft from when we all got furloughed.

attrition...seniority list is a lot smaller than when you left.

49 Saabs + 36 CRJ900's = 85 airframes
85 airframes x 6 CA's per A/C = 510 line CA's (not counting APD's/Instructors)
last seniority list shows 710 pilots
delivery schedule yet to be seen, but 3 a month it would take a year
current attrition is (and has been) 10 pilots per month... 120 a year...240 over 2 years

Like I said not trying to sell anyone here. This place is definately different (read worse) than when I hired on 8 years ago. But it still isn't so bad that it should get bashed as a bottom feeder.

 

[xjgearbtch]

Guys beat your chest here all you want. Do the right thing and go the formal way for resignation. Remember with the PRIA records you could get burned when appling to another airline when they request your records from XJ. They slamed you once don't let them do it again.

 

[fastback]

Guys beat your chest here all you want. Do the right thing and go the formal way for resignation. Remember with the PRIA records you could get burned when appling to another airline when they request your records from XJ. They slamed you once don't let them do it again.

I just want to tell you both, good luck, we're all counting on you.

 

[wmudriver]

Pay no attention to all of the sour grapes coming from those who have moved on. XJ has/had it's issues but looking forward, it isn't a blad place to be now. 90% of the pi$$ing and moaning is from former XJers. .

I'm not sour at all towards the pilots. I have a lot of friends still there and I wish them nothing but the best and hope they get the upgrade that they deserve. It's an awesome pilot group and I had a lot of fun working there. From the outside looking in, it was best for me to move on from XJ and it was best for my career.

The ill will I do harbor is toward the management there. They all earned one-way ticket on a space ship to the sun.

I did find humor in my recall notice. Either accept or resign. It made it easy to sign it and fax it in...with no "F#ck off" written on it or a drawing of a wang for my signature. I took the high road out and am proud of the time I served there and had lots of good memories from my time there.

 

[gnx99]

Do not read into this that I am trying to sway awayone's decision, just straightning out some facts...

There is a $21,00 training contract payable if you leave within one year and a 3 year seatlock to trade FO positions (this doesn't keep you from upgrading, just trading FO to FO). These both in place under the old contract.

We do have 7 year FO's now, but with the aircraft deliveries, the upgrade time should drop to about 2 years. In fact, if attrition stays about the same, all the furloughs will be CA's by the last CRJ900 delivery.

The concessions that we took will snapback to the prior contract upon delivery of the 36th CRJ900 (the contract will extend at this time slightly too).

Furloughess will be paid a portion of the claim (into 401k). It doesn't make up for all the money lost or time, but it will be a sizeable chunk of money.

But most of that is just theory at this point. 2 year upgrade is just a guess. That assumes current attrition, and assumes the 900's come on time, and assumes the Saabs all will stay (which they won't). Remember we are supposed to have a bunch of CRJs right now too.

It's just amazing to me that people just keep trusting what NWA says. They will do ANYTHING to cut their costs. They will avoid that wage restoration at any cost. I'm sure BigSky or Colgan will get the Saabs eventually, Mesaba ends up with slightly less than the 79 jets, and they avoid those 3% and 2% on 2010 and 2011.

 

[SplitBar]

But most of that is just theory at this point. 2 year upgrade is just a guess. That assumes current attrition, and assumes the 900's come on time, and assumes the Saabs all will stay (which they won't). Remember we are supposed to have 20+ CRJs right now too.

Also for the snapback, I think it says if we have more than 79 aircraft, not 36 CRJ900's. Again that assumes every Saab is here on 1 Dec. 2010 which I HIGHLY doubt they will be. BigSky or Colgan will probably be flying them by them, since they are MUCH cheaper. Plus, more pay in 2011 doesn't pay anyone's mortgage.

It's just amazing to me that people just keep trusting what NWA says. They will do ANYTHING to cut their costs. They will avoid that wage restoration at any cost.

NWA didn't buy XJ to operate only 36 CRJ900's. With every penny of XJ profit now flowing directly up to NWA, XJ is the "MUCH cheaper" option to be flying redtail feed. Factor into the equations that NWA owns XJ and gets their profits and you will find that it doesn't make sense to give the Saabs to BigSky or Colgan. The Saabs aren't going anywhere for 5-6 years and that is when they will be replaced, not flown elsewhere. The wage restoration is a drop in the bucket compared to the costs that NWA would incur by outsourcing their Saab fleet to someone else.

 

[flyslow24]

I love how people are still talking about an upgrade at Mesaba going down to 2 years with attrition blah blah blah.... When I was on IOE my instructor told me man you are going to be a captain in 1.5 years with all the airplanes coming... about 9 months later I am on Furlough.

I don't care if you left a 900 number and are coming back a 650ish number. You will not upgrade in two years! I tell you what the folks at Mesaba that are still there ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. Too much time invested now. Do not be a fool and think you will upgrade quick. Plus you have an older pilot group that was not going anywhere when the Avro was around. You think that Avro captains that down graded to the Saab liked it? Heck no! But now that the CRJ900's are there they got the planes they need to retire there. Think about it why would a guy in his mid to late 50's leave Mesaba? Same thing happened at Air Wis. Everyone that left because of the switch over to Us Air is already gone. Mass exoudus coming? I don't see it!

Bottom line everyone that would ever leave has already left. Yeah sure big hiring boom this year but that's every regional. And the seven year FO that is waiting around and finally upgrading is not leaving until he gets 1000 hours PIC. Then has to get hired thats going to take at least 1.5 years if not more!

Do youself a favor only go back if it severly adjusts your QOL like living in base.

Man I hope I am wrong! G'luck. Anyone want an ice cream cone?

 

[XJohXJ]

And guys, the thing about the snapback wages: It is a percentage per aircraft over 49. It is NOT "all or nothing". Any conspiracy theories about making our fleet 49 + 36 - 1 aircraft to avoid the snapback are just plain silly. IF that did happen, we would have Full snapback minus .125. Big deal.

 

[XJohXJ]

Oh, and buy the way, the guys who are captains now are leaving every single month. Yes, there are some older guys in the top 100 who don't want to leave. You get that at any airline which is halfway OK. Nonetheless, Southwest is hiring like crazy, and I don't think there are any pilots at XJ who can't scrape together 2-10 solid rec letters at SW. If they don't make it to SW, we still have a good track record with FedEx, Continental, JetBlue, Spirit, AirTran, NetJets, etc. etc.

To say that the Captains aren't leaving is just ridiculous. They are leaving as fast as they can! Some are dragging their heels as they haven't filled out their logbooks in 5 years, and some over 50 guys don't see any point in going. But there are scores of them still trying to get out, and most of them will.

 

[CptMurf]

But most of that is just theory at this point. 2 year upgrade is just a guess. That assumes current attrition, and assumes the 900's come on time, and assumes the Saabs all will stay (which they won't). Remember we are supposed to have a bunch of CRJs right now too.

Granted, but saying "2 year upgrade" at ANY airline is speculative. At this point, as long as the ASA is honored there will be a MUCH shorter (possibly in the 2 year range) upgrade. Is that better than where you are? I dunno, personally I wouldn't give up senority to jump ship anywhere at a shot at faster upgrade, there are no guarantees. Your fastest chance may be here though, with the senority you bring back with you.

As far as my stats on attrition, this is actually a low number. We historically averaged 10 per month. In the recent year, it has been as high as 30 per month. There are a lot of us with apps out now too. I don't think that it will slow down for awhile.

I'm not trying to spin anything here... Just looking at the fact that we recalled all furloughs, starting hiring (promising June class dates), and cancelling vacations starting in April. Movement is going to happen here, and fast.

 

[Yudso]

I harbor no ill will towards the xj pilot group. What a class act. Management pissed me off, and there is no reason for me to go back. I will upgrade at my current company in about a year and the pay will be better. I am proud of the time I spent there, and would have gladly waited to upgrade in the saab. I wish the xj pilots the best of luck. You deserve more than you were given.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I will be going back as soon as Fed-Ex gets me my package. But then again I live in base, granted the city and for that matter most of the state are falling apart around me, but that's another story. Plus going from 4 to at least 11 days off a month will be a big jump in QOL, not to mention reserve call out being 90 min instead of always being on reserve (and not counting it toward duty) with a 30 minute callout. True no more jet pic for me but hmm I got 60 hours since I upgraded in October... BFD. It's a bit of a paycut initially but when you factor in the bankruptcy claim and the tax free perdiem, I will actually make more to go back.
Yes it's a dirty old pink Saab, but the only difference between that and the C-550 is I can actually have a bit of elbow room in the Saab. Not to mention no more 1 am scramble calls....

 

[fly4ever]

CRJ900 delivery currently shows 1 in May, 2 per month afterwards, last one on the property 12/08. Over a year and a half for 36 airplanes. Who knows what else may be brought on board but treat the possibility of an upgrade like it is - a possibility - not a given.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

For the love of Oprah!

Furloughees - if you are employed elsewhere and are in line for a 2 year upgrade, stay there! Don't even think of coming back. Even if XJ is awarded more aircraft, you're still going to be a slave of the corrupt NWA redtail and XJ's joke of a senior leadership team.

Prospective pilots - go elsewhere! Don't even think of coming here. There are better places that will do better for your career.

I'm so proud of the furloughees that have moved on and taken their Saab SIC type with them.

*** Disclaimer - The above opinions are from a 6.5+ year FO who's seen his career stall into oblivion. All I know is that I need 197 hours PIC-T until I am eligible for AirTran, 997 hours PIC-T until I'm eligible for Southwest, and if Continental calls tomorrow there will be one less disgruntled employee at XJ.

MM

 

[SEVEN]

I love how people are still talking about an upgrade at Mesaba going down to 2 years with attrition blah blah blah.... When I was on IOE my instructor told me man you are going to be a captain in 1.5 years with all the airplanes coming... about 9 months later I am on Furlough.

I don't care if you left a 900 number and are coming back a 650ish number. You will not upgrade in two years! I tell you what the folks at Mesaba that are still there ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. Too much time invested now. Do not be a fool and think you will upgrade quick. Plus you have an older pilot group that was not going anywhere when the Avro was around. You think that Avro captains that down graded to the Saab liked it? Heck no! But now that the CRJ900's are there they got the planes they need to retire there. Think about it why would a guy in his mid to late 50's leave Mesaba? Same thing happened at Air Wis. Everyone that left because of the switch over to Us Air is already gone. Mass exoudus coming? I don't see it!

Bottom line everyone that would ever leave has already left. Yeah sure big hiring boom this year but that's every regional. And the seven year FO that is waiting around and finally upgrading is not leaving until he gets 1000 hours PIC. Then has to get hired thats going to take at least 1.5 years if not more!

Do youself a favor only go back if it severly adjusts your QOL like living in base.

Man I hope I am wrong! G'luck. Anyone want an ice cream cone?

Welcome back to XJ. I might be able to get you a traffic watch job on the weekend to earn extra $. See you at Pan AM.
Yes; I would like an ice cream cone.