Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[PseudoName]

I know this may sound like flame bait, but here is some food for thought for the NetJet pilots who think the proposed pay under the TA us unfair. Compare your pay, work rules, duty hours, quality of aircraft, quality of operations support, etc. to some of the large charter and corporate operators in the business aviation sector. If you make that comparison, a job under the proposed NetJets TA might not seem unreasonable.

I have several friends who have 5+ years with NetJets, therefore, I am very familar with your current contract as well as the proposed TA. After hearing about this "unfair" TA, I decided to sit down and compare my job with a job at NetJets.

I consider myself to have one of the better corporate aviation jobs in the Part 135 sector. This company provides me with a salary above the NBAA average, scheduled days off, full medical, retirement and an exceptional fleet of aircraft. After comparing my duty hours, days spent on-call, yearly hours flown, etc. I calculated that I make $120.00 per day less than a 5 year NetJet Captain under the proposed TA. I'm thinking to myself that this can't be true, however, after talking with my NetJet friends....yep it's true.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side boys! Your schedule provides for 14 hard days off per month, you stay in the nicer hotels, ride on the better airlines, have your flight releases and weight and balance faxed to you.....which is not provided by most of your more well known charter operators.

Just a thought.......

Ok, go ahead.......tell me how I am wrong!

 

[Les Paul]

I agree 100%!

I am amazed that some of the NetJets and corporate pilots carrying anywhere from 2-8 passengers at a time, flying small airplanes, expect to be compensated as if they are carrying 150 pax. If you expect to earn major airline wages, then get off your @ss and go work for a major airline. Your expectations for flying a small corporate jet are incredibly unrealistic.


Some of you people around here need to take a drug test, because you are obviously high.

Les Paul

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree 100%!

I am amazed that some of the NetJets and corporate pilots carrying anywhere from 2-8 passengers at a time, flying small airplanes, expect to be compensated as if they are carrying 150 pax. If you expect to earn major airline wages, then get off your @ss and go work for a major airline. Your expectations for flying a small corporate jet are incredibly unrealistic.


Some of you people around here need to take a drug test, because you are obviously high.

Les Paul

maybe that lil' ole bizjet is carrying ONE person with a net worth of say.....3 billion dollars...

suppose that great big 737 at Southwest is carrying 150 redneck white trash Nascar Tshirt wearin disneyworld bound folks with a combined worth of about $12...

does this justify who gets paid more?? by how many SEATS it holds??

(Sounds like 60's management style ala USAIR,UAL, etc...)



The numbers Netjets guys desire are not unrealistic at all.

The fact that they ask for them AFTER taking the job is, however, -- unrealistic and unfortunate.

 

[Les Paul]

maybe that lil' ole bizjet is carrying ONE person with a net worth of say.....3 billion dollars...

suppose that great big 737 at Southwest is carrying 150 redneck white trash Nascar Tshirt wearin disneyworld bound folks with a combined worth of about $12...

does this justify who gets paid more?? by how many SEATS it holds??

(Sounds like 60's management style ala USAIR,UAL, etc...)



The numbers Netjets guys desire are not unrealistic at all.

The fact that they ask for them AFTER taking the job is, however, -- unrealistic and unfortunate.

Well... I hope you never decide to run a charter company... or any company for that matter. That company would be bankrupt prior to the first flight.

Here is some business savvy realism for your little fantasy world:

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHAT THE CLIENT IS WORTH......! Client net worth doesn't generate profits. What matters is how much revenue is generated on a given flight.

I will put my money against yours any day on this little tidbit: That Southwest flight carrying 130 of Gulfstream 200's relatives is generating more NET revenue than that Fractional flight carrying 4.

That Southwest aircraft and crew are ALSO generating more NET revenue on a daily basis than that fractional aircraft.

So go ahead and ask for Captain pay of 120,000.00 on a Citation X.

If management is worth their weight, they will tell you to report for that drug test.

Les Paul

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I know this may sound like flame bait, but here is some food for thought for the NetJet pilots who think the proposed pay under the TA us unfair. Compare your pay, work rules, duty hours, quality of aircraft, quality of operations support, etc. to some of the large charter and corporate operators in the business aviation sector. If you make that comparison, a job under the proposed NetJets TA might not seem unreasonable.

I have several friends who have 5+ years with NetJets, therefore, I am very familar with your current contract as well as the proposed TA. After hearing about this "unfair" TA, I decided to sit down and compare my job with a job at NetJets.

I consider myself to have one of the better corporate aviation jobs in the Part 135 sector. This company provides me with a salary above the NBAA average, scheduled days off, full medical, retirement and an exceptional fleet of aircraft. After comparing my duty hours, days spent on-call, yearly hours flown, etc. I calculated that I make $120.00 per day less than a 5 year NetJet Captain under the proposed TA. I'm thinking to myself that this can't be true, however, after talking with my NetJet friends....yep it's true.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side boys! Your schedule provides for 14 hard days off per month, you stay in the nicer hotels, ride on the better airlines, have your flight releases and weight and balance faxed to you.....which is not provided by most of your more well known charter operators.

Just a thought.......

Ok, go ahead.......tell me how I am wrong!

well, good observation I suppose..but one though:


Wouldn't you like a decent paying job at Netjets someday? ...

or would you be happy just comparing your $hitty job to theirs and saying "hey you guys got it OK, they give you days off" ...aint that special..

They deserve MUCH better, this industry deserves MUCH better. Someday YOU might want better. (?)

Its called progress. Its good for the world.

I say show support or stay silent.

 

[gordon24]

suppose that great big 737 at Southwest is carrying 150 redneck white trash Nascar Tshirt wearin disneyworld bound folks with a combined worth of about $12...

LOL...C'mon man, I happen to like Nascar! Anyway, that was a great post!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well... I hope you never decide to run a charter company... or any company for that matter. That company would be bankrupt prior to the first flight.

Here is some business savvy realism for your little fantasy world:

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHAT THE CLIENT IS WORTH......! Client net worth doesn't generate profits. What matters is how much revenue is generated on a given flight.

I will put my money against yours any day on this little tidbit: That Southwest flight carrying 130 of Gulfstream 200's relatives is generating more NET revenue than that Fractional flight carrying 4.

That Southwest aircraft and crew are ALSO generating more NET revenue on a daily basis than that fractional aircraft.

So go ahead and ask for Captain pay of 120,000.00 on a Citation X.

If management is worth their weight, they will tell you to report for that drug test.

Les Paul

Oh I dont think they will get anywhere near that money...

but while we are talking business and revenues (and profits).....

How did ANY of the airlines (with those larger seating capacity jets) do last year compared to BH? any idea?

 

[PseudoName]

The numbers Netjets guys desire are not unrealistic at all.

The fact that they ask for them AFTER taking the job is, however, -- unrealistic and unfortunate.

Really? I understand that NetJet pilots want 5 year Captain pay to be around 100K and F/O pay starting around 40K. In order to provide an aircraft with a full crew, that would mean NetJets would be paying a minimum of 280K in crew salaries for each aircraft (7/7 schedule, 2 Capts @ 100K ea, 2 F/Os @ 40K ea to cover the airplane = 280K).

Normal crew compliments for business aircraft is 3 pilots per airplane....not 4! So, please tell me how the NetJets desire is not unrealistic.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

The company I work staffs 5/aircraft -- minimum.

100K a lot for a bizjet captain? I made north of that on Learjets, Citations, and Westwinds - so do other people. crazy huh?

If a 100K for a 5 year PIC and 40K for an FO is unrealistic in your mind you must work at a real bottomfeeder pilot-abusing outfit!!

jeeesus help us, here is the future.

 

[netjetwife]

Time for some hometruths here!

Certainly, I can tell you how very WRONG you are. I could type for hours, but here are some of the main points.

NetJets lied to pilots during the interview. That's why you see posts on here trying to give honest answers about pay and upgrade time. My extremely talented husband, retired F16 LtCol, laid off AA pilot, took a calculated risk that a company owned by Warren Buffet and expanding rapidly really would promote him quickly and produce an industry leading contract that reflected their 75% share of the market. We had no way of knowing that the company planned to build their business on the backs of the pilots. Ever heard of corporate greed? They charge mind-boggling prices to the wealth customers/owners and pay the pilots subpar wages. We also had no idea that the current MEC would prove to be so thoroughly incompetent and out of touch. Think "sold down the river".

My husband has flown for the "big dogs", and he knows exactly what the job entails. He works MUCH HARDER for NetJets, and deals with wealthy snobs in a way that other pilots would never even dream of putting up with. Last night his pxs were blasting Gangsta Rap so loud that they could barely concentrate in the cockpit. All 5 had been drinking. They waived his safety brief and kept getting up out of their seats while the pilots were trying to take off. After flying them thru the storms of the east coast at night, safely to their destination,( in spite of the distractions),arranging for their limo, and unloading their luggage my husband watched them tip everyone on the line BUT the pilots. My husband makes $28K a year and our son gets the "poor kid " lunch price at a public school. We know other FO families on WIC/food stamps. Last month, his Excel brought in $100K for the company. That is 1 plane in 1 month! During his flights alone. DO NOT try to tell me that my husband is paid a fair salary! Furthermore, the owners have been charged increased fees to cover pilots' raises that were never given to them. They lie to the owners, too. Another one--every plane has 2 Captains. Wrong. 1 Cpt and 1 FO w/a Captains rating. Big $$ difference.

More facts--not all hotels are nice, sometimes they are so bad the pilots refuse to stay in them a 2nd time, my husband flies on all the different airlines, SWA and FA a lot. 10 hour turn arounds are very common. Fos are baggage handlers, FAs and janitors on the planes they fly, in addition to acting as the concierge for their wealthy passengers. You can be involuntarily extended on any tour, and he only gets 4 hard days off a month. The pilot force has doubled in recent years, and our situation is one shared by many NJets families.

Pseudo, what is your yearly salary? Lets compare apples to apples. You only mention pay in the TA. It is full of problems across the board, regressive in most areas, and considered by the VAST MAJORITY to be an insult. There is no way that it will pass.

 

[netjetwife]

The Revenue Is There

Because we are talking about THE Wealthiest people in the world. Here's a good example. My husband flew a 13 yr old boy, travelling alone, to summer camp--loaded large trunk and lots of sports equipment--his parents paid $5000 -1 way!
My husband was paid $13 an hour during the 3hr trip. (could have been less or a little longer--sorry don't remember exact time) And you say there isn't enough revenue to pay NBAA average salaries!!!???

 

[Heavy Set]

Why isn't he at SWA with his F16 buddies??????

Because we are talking about THE Wealthiest people in the world. Here's a good example. My husband flew a 13 yr old boy, travelling alone, to summer camp--loaded large trunk and lots of sports equipment--his parents paid $5000 -1 way!
My husband was paid $13 an hour during the 3hr trip. (could have been less or a little longer--sorry don't remember exact time) And you say there isn't enough revenue to pay NBAA average salaries!!!???

I suggest he put his applications into AirTran and JetBlue ASAP. Doesn't he have some ex F16 buddies flying for SWA (full of military and Space Shuttle jocks)? Have someone walk his stuff in tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Les Paul]

My husband makes $28K a year and our son gets the "poor kid " lunch price at a public school. We know other FO families on WIC/food stamps. Last month, his Excel brought in $100K for the company. That is 1 plane in 1 month! During his flights alone. DO NOT try to tell me that my husband is paid a fair salary!

I will play your little game pretending that in fact you are just the angry housewife. But your post sure sounds like a NetJets pilot that is too big a wuss to post their own thoughts hence the Netjetwife beard.

One question... and one only:

Did your husband do his research and bring ALL of this up BEFORE he interviewed and BEFORE he accepted employment at NetJets? Sounds like he isn't made up of what it takes for that type of flying... regardless of the pay. After all, I'm sure he knew what fractional flying entailed... right. He did check on the salary... and was told 28K....right? I'm willing to bet he b!tches about the job after he gets the raise.

Me personally.... I wouldn't have accepted the job for $28K. My bare minimum would be $40-$50k as a new hire FO. And don't give me the he needed the money line. If he needed the money then, he needs the money now so why complain after the fact. He accepted employment, so live with it, try for a better REALISTIC pay raise... and zip it, or quit and find something that keeps his yapper happy. But to sit in the mud and crying over something he (and you?) agreed to solves nothing.

I'm still not buying the wife part, however.

Les Paul

 

[gordon24]

I'm trying to be neutral on this. Please tell me netjetswife's husband is not one of these "I'm furloughed, flew fighters, should be at Southwest, this is beneath me" people. If not, I commend him. If so, time to move on and find something else. I hope you at least have the O-5 retirement coming in.

 

[netjetwife]

More here than just the flying

Heavyset, He turned down FedEX, and United to go to American. Fantastic resume/pilot---has DFC from Desert Storm. Turned down JetBlue for NetJets, Sure we have friends at all the places, but we need to stay in Colorado Springs for family reasons, and commute is a pain. Took NJs based on theory that could live anywhere we want....RCA messing that up for everyone. Also believed in the business principal and likes the challenge of helping build the business, which IS going to be very big....10 times now...according to Buffet. He expected...REASONABLY SO....to be compensated for his contribution-- fairly. The fighter pilot in him wants to fight this battle. The family man in him will leave if we think the cause is lost--meaning if the POS TA were to pass. We can't imagine that and all indicators say it won't.

 

[netjetwife]

What A Jerk

That makes me so angry that I didn't even finish reading your post. My husband would never have bragged on himself. He is coming off of tour today and isn't even here. Am I too articulate for you? Able to defend my position too well? I want the truth known about this company that is owned by a BILLIONAIRE and is hurting families by exploiting its pilots!

 

[netjetwife]

Certainly Not

Gordon, he is a natural leader, a smart guy, and a hard worker. He thought the business had great potential---and was right. He actually enjoys the variety and challenge of the flying. And now that we are fighting for what is right and have been organizing the pilots and families, he will not leave them without helping defeat this insulting TA.

 

[pilotyip]

Retired O-6

I work in the cargo buisiness and love it. I have never meet a box that ever displayed an attitude or complained about the ride, approach or landing.

 

[gordon24]

Gordon, he is a natural leader, a smart guy, and a hard worker. He thought the business had great potential---and was right. He actually enjoys the variety and challenge of the flying. And now that we are fighting for what is right and have been organizing the pilots and families, he will not leave them without helping defeat this insulting TA.

In that case, I applaud him (and you) for your information. My best wishes for your family.

 

[netjetwife]

Yes we have the O-5 retirement, which IS WHY he felt that he could take a gamble on an upcoming business, that SHOULD have been producing the good contract based on all the info available to pilots. The RESEARCH has proven true--NetJets is poised to make it big. Warren Buffet knows how to make money. It was entirely reasonable to think that the salary would have changed to reflect the company's place in the market---75% Had the pilots had decent leadership, we'd be celebrating a win/win contract now instead of fighting against the MEC that was totally incompetent and spineless.