Realistically-how long from Private to right seat for Southwest?

[Caveman]

At the risk of drawing the ire of the orange kool-aid club (i prefer Blue myself ), what makes you think SWA will be the place to be in the realistic minimum 7-10 years it will take you to get there? SWA is a fine company to work for, but it wasn't that long ago SWA was considered second tier by most qualified pilots looking for work. DAL, US Air, UAL, CAL and NWA were considered better places to be. How long ago was this? Just prior to 9/11. A good business plan, low wages (by 2001 standards) and luck kept SWA intact. They didn't improve. Everybody else dropped down to below their pay. We can argue all day as to why that happened, but SWA just steadily remained on course while the rest of the industry imploded.

In fact, during the summer of '01 SWAPA was banging the drum for wage parity with UAL and DAL. The 'S' word was being bandied about. All of a sudden 9/11 happens and SWAPA rolls over like a new bride and accepts a 5 or 6 year extension on their old contract. Frankly, that was a good call, especially considering how the industry has been rocked. But SWA and SWAPA were a few months away from a similar situation as the legacy carriers.

My point is that this industry is so fluid and unpredictable as to make any definitive plans beyond a couple of years a waste of effort. I encourage you to go 'balls to the wall' but understand that things change RAPIDLY and in general terms SWA is a fine goal, but realistically just putting yourself in position to be hired by any major airline is probably a smarter move. When you have 5000+ TT and 2000 TPIC if SWA still looks good, go for it. Just keep your options open and have a broader target the farther out you look.

Good luck.

 

[Annie]

SO, I am correct in that I hear you folks saying that: experience and training are accepted and necessary required elements for being the PIC? And, that you all agree these items are expected to be documented legitimately (accurately)? THEN, WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME, DO YOU NOT EXPECT THE SAME REQUIREMENTS FOR LEADERSHIP ROLES IN OTHER FIELDS? Why do you accept lying on resumes,and short term introductory experiences, as being acceptable qualifications for decision making/leadership" roles in academia, or government?

 

[FN FAL]

At the risk of drawing the ire of the orange kool-aid club (i prefer Blue myself ), what makes you think SWA will be the place to be in the realistic minimum 7-10 years it will take you to get there? SWA is a fine company to work for, but it wasn't that long ago SWA was considered second tier by most qualified pilots looking for work. DAL, US Air, UAL, CAL and NWA were considered better places to be. How long ago was this? Just prior to 9/11. A good business plan, low wages (by 2001 standards) and luck kept SWA intact. They didn't improve. Everybody else dropped down to below their pay. We can argue all day as to why that happened, but SWA just steadily remained on course while the rest of the industry imploded.

In fact, during the summer of '01 SWAPA was banging the drum for wage parity with UAL and DAL. The 'S' word was being bandied about. All of a sudden 9/11 happens and SWAPA rolls over like a new bride and accepts a 5 or 6 year extension on their old contract. Frankly, that was a good call, especially considering how the industry has been rocked. But SWA and SWAPA were a few months away from a similar situation as the legacy carriers.

My point is that this industry is so fluid and unpredictable as to make any definitive plans beyond a couple of years a waste of effort. I encourage you to go 'balls to the wall' but understand that things change RAPIDLY and in general terms SWA is a fine goal, but realistically just putting yourself in position to be hired by any major airline is probably a smarter move. When you have 5000+ TT and 2000 TPIC if SWA still looks good, go for it. Just keep your options open and have a broader target the farther out you look.

Good luck.

Well said.

One other thing to add to that, is that as person matures in this industry, their desires for certain types of employment may change based on opportunities that come thier way.

You can start out aiming for American or Delta and somewhere along the way, find yourself being offered the corporate flight department job of a lifetime. You never know.

A friend of mine flies for a large corporate flight department and that goofball is still airline "curious". He's their Hawker type manager...I'm sure he'd never make up the pay difference at this point in time if he left and went to the airlines.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

Runninhorn - Go after the Fed-Ex route first! If you have more than a few years with them and a good review this is your goal. Southwest is one heck of a boys club. I had friends at Skywest that went there and they took close to 20 letters of rec to the interview to get in, and they had the type.

The best plan is to stay with business, get your MBA, work your way up in Fed-X, get into the Flt Dept, build time on the side and wait your turn.

As posted earlier, if you go balls out and go Great Lakes, you may look back in a few years, broke, divorced, and still trying to get a better job.

Good luck and keekp your family first!!

Baja.

what are some positions in the flight dept? In Memphis?

 

[FR8dognit]

Ok, ok, this is a serious question. If a person was to go balls out training, that already has their private and working on their instrument, "guessing" how long would you say, how many years, could right seat be attained for flying for southwest?

Private 8/31/98
SWA Class 5/10/2006

Did four year degree in the middle of all that.

To achieve your goal just be prepared when opportunities arise. Get the mins and the degree as fast as you can. Hopefully the opportunity will come around.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Dump the wife, get a girlfriend and have some fun. Goals are nice, but if it takes you 10 years, at that point you're already divorced. Good luck!

 

[RUNNINHORN]

yea, im not too worried about how fast now, slow and steady is fine, more concerned with obtaining the correct training and learning everything than speed.

Will stay on with Fedex Express as long as I can and continue my training.......

 

[Dubya]

Lemme tell you a little bit about quirky wives.....ahhhh nevermind..pm me if you want details....


Worry about the left seat of a CRJ for now...that's 6 to 10 years away...and I second the motion to add a girlfriend to the equation...not a quirky one though....thats just asking for trouble.imp:

W

 

[OpenClimb]

Not SWA, but my story...

I was entrenched in a career/profession I didn't really care for. I spent all my time and all my extra money playing with and flying airplanes. A friend suggested that I should be a professional pilot. I objected saying that I'd never be able to pay my bills on a starting F/O salary (which was definitely true). This friend, in an uncharacteristic display of wisdom, asked me which I liked best: my big house, my Lexus, my airplanes, my motorcycles, etc. or HAPPINESS.

The rest is history. I sold everything, took a vow of poverty and decided to be an airline pilot. I had my Private certificate, an instrument rating and about 750 hours total time at the beginning of my journey. Almost exactly a year later, Mesa hired me with about 1300TT/150ME.

It took me 5-1/2 years and employment with 2 different regional carriers from the time I "retired" from my first career to the day I was hired as a F/O at Frontier. I didn't have any connections whatsoever in obtaining my first regional airline job. In fact, looking back on it, I went into the interview quite literally: fat, dumb and happy! (but I had a great suit!)

I never applied to Southwest because I don't meet their turbine PIC time requirement. I always opted for the F/O seat in a bigger, more advanced airplane rather than getting the 1000PIC. In hindsight, this was a mistake as it seriously inhibits my marketability.

All the standard disclaimers apply: Your mileage may vary. I'm not saying what I did was right, wrong or indifferent. It's been 48 hours since I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, etc.

Good luck in your career.

 

[RefugePilot]

If you are working on your private license and MBA at the same time you are spinning your wheels.

According to my figures when I made the career commitment to aviation, five years ago, I should already be in the right seat, and making six figures. Instead I will be making 4 figures(low end) and flying freight next year; less than I would have made out of college over a decade ago, if I went that route. And I am excited about my new job as it is a step in the right direction in the aviation world. I have stopped speculating where and when I will be making the big bucks and flying a "real plane" otherwise I would have left aviation in dissapointment out of unrealized goals.

What I can guarantee you:

You will spend $20-30k more on aviation before you make $1

You will probably make less than $15k your first year as a commercial pilot.

You will make less than $25k your next year and probably less than $30k the following 3 years

These figures are if you are lucky and go balls to the wall. It could be worse.

Then when you finally meet the current highering minimums Southwest may no longer be in business or may have changed the the minimums. If you meet the mins, you may still not get interviewed or hired. At least you have your MBA to fall back on.

I am not saying Southwest is going out of business soon, or that being a pilot is not worth it in the end. It is just going to be a long road between here and there and the industry has always been changing, now more than ever.

You have a long difficult path ahead of you if you want to be a pilot, don't go into more debt to get your MBA. You will not be any more qualified to sit in a food stamp line on your days off from flight instructing. If you want something stable and guaranteed in the aviation industry get your MBA, then work for the airlines as management. They seem to be doing well as pilots are loosing there retirement and taking huge pay cuts.

Speculating what the future will be like is a waste of time. If you want to be a pilot start working hard and take what comes your way when you are there.

 

[NoahWerka]

SO, I am correct in that I hear you folks saying that: experience and training are accepted and necessary required elements for being the PIC? And, that you all agree these items are expected to be documented legitimately (accurately)? THEN, WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME, DO YOU NOT EXPECT THE SAME REQUIREMENTS FOR LEADERSHIP ROLES IN OTHER FIELDS? Why do you accept lying on resumes,and short term introductory experiences, as being acceptable qualifications for decision making/leadership" roles in academia, or government?

Because in those fields you do not have to back up the experience listed your resume with a sim ride. Two minutes in to a sim ride the Instructor knows if you can fly or not. You list 5000TT and can't even enter a holding pattern correctly, forget it. You ain't gonna get hired. They don't care about minor screwups. they are looking at your overall ability operate an aircraft and your knowledge of procedures. That only comes with experience. Where else in the real world do prospective employees have to go through such a rigorous evaluation to get hired for a job? That is why it is so easy to lie on a resume in a non-aviation field. Besides you can't kill a planeful of people flying a desk no matter how large the desk is.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I would estimate 8 to 12-years if everything goes well with no problems. Could be 20-years and more likely you'll NEVER end up working for SWA. But the good news is that it is very likely that you will find a good career in aviation as a pilot for someone. It may be a corporation or it maybe an airline or it maybe working for the FAA, who knows.