Real world Go-Arounds

[chperplt]

Now, I've had my share of TA's and RA's but thats another story.

After 2 1/2 years, I had my first RA a few days ago. We had the traffic in sight, and there was no real conflict, but I thought the system was pretty cool. Especially after the fact when the voice says "traffic conflict no longer exists".

 

[eddie]

I think 5000 ft was correct. In STL we were often touching down as another aircraft was rotating. Perhaps they changed the rules, but a few years ago it was standard practice.

Also I know there are waivers to the separation rules, all you have to do is fly into OSH during Airventure to land with another plane touching down at the same time farther down the runway.

 

[dispatchguy]

G/A

When I dispatched I was jumpseating into ORD going home one day - winds howling out of the east.

From the get-go the captain seemed a little preoccupied from the departure - missing radio calls, programming an incorrect direct into the FMGC, you get the pic.

Our clearance is ILS 4R, maintain 190 til REKKS, were in an A320.

We capture the ILS around DEGAN, and track it inbound.

We cross over REKKS (we are in visual w/ the airport) @ 190. Captain dials down the V/S to capture the glide slope - but we never slowed. I turn my head to something and look back, and were about 1-1/2 mile inside REKKS, pointing way down, with about a 2000 descent on the VSI. Captain's still insisting on getting the airplane on the GS with the FMGC.

We have a full GS deviation on the PFD, It was the F/Os leg (I think), captain still fiddling with the VS to capture the GS, then the F/O (new), decides to go around. I was just about to suggest it from the JS when the F/O announced it. We had a full-scale deviation, still blazing inbound at 190. We were just south of the railroad tracks on the approach, well outside stabilized approach criteria.

Do it again, F/O tells ATC that the 190 kts is too fast for just a 5-mile final, and they gave us 170.

Interestingly enough - same a/c type a month later, same clearance, same runway, same airport, and I even think same controller resulted in another go-around.

 

[blott]

Two aircraft on the same runway...

I don't have any "legal" proof but, I asked a controller about it and he said they could do it, but it was his responsability for the separation-but I didn't ask what the sep. requirement was.

I've flown with alot of pilots who have said "aircraft still on runway-get ready for a go around" I always tell them two aircraft can be on the runway at once-but if the other pilot ever says "go around" I don't bother to ask why- untill later-just go around...

I'll land with another aircraft on the runway-as long as I feel safe. I have no problems with this.

Ever been to Sun and Fun? Crazy!!! two spots on the runway with aircraft landing at the same time, plus two aircraft on the adjacent TAXIWAY landing, with a never ending stream of aircraft on final--all this while the Ultra lights are flying around in another area, helicopters in another area, and the airshow thing going on....CRAZY!!! (reminds me of one of my first solo flight to Waycross GA on a weekend---Stay Away!!!!....LOL.)

As far as you guys asking about go arounds--it seems like this is a big deal to you? WTF? This is just a part of everyday flying. A normal procedure. (its an emergency procedure if you are single engine, etc) I can see it might not be a common occurance if you are GA flying- where you don't NEED, and most pilots probably shouldn't, be flying around in **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** conditions, but i get paid to fly in the soup, I have no choice.... you guys are starting to scare me...

then again, this thread is in the GENERAL section...

B

 

[captainv]

after 6 months in the RJ, i've now had 5 go-arounds. three for ATC, two for wind shear alerts.

ATC caused the go-arounds at MSP, MID and FLL, and they were all bad calls by ATC. for each we were on a less than 3 mile final and they cleared another airliner holding short for takeoff. the RJ is just too fast on final to make that happen. FLL was the worst - NWA looked like they might pull it off but at about 70 feet tower told us to go around.

the wind shear alerts were at DCA and TOL. At DCA we caught a gust in the turn to Rwy 19, came in the next time with a few extra knots in the turn and had no problems.


as for Sun 'n Fun, they actually have three spots for GA aircraft to land on the taxiway (which is 8500' long). the main runway is normally used for departures and jet/warbird arrivals. ultralights and helicopters aren't a factor if they stay to their assigned areas. absolutely nothing flies during the airshow except for the performers, but they do have aircraft doing flybys over the flight line at 1000 feet while landing other aircraft. it's definitely nothing you've ever seen before, but there is a method to the madness...

 

[temcgrew]

LAHSO

I fly for a charter operator and we are not even approved for LAHSO operations at airports that have procedures in place. Even if there is 10,000 feet of runway to the hold short point, we cannot do it.

How would the tower operator be able to approve us for landing on the same runway behind someone? The get annoyed when we say NO to the LAHSO or intersection departures (unapproved as well) try getting out of ohare in a learjet after telling the tower "unable for intersection departure". SURE SURE.


I might feel comfy in a 172, landing behind another 172 on a 5,000 foot strip, but not in anything else.

 

[hydroflyer]

Keep in mind the example I gave earlier was based off of a pair of C-172's landing on a 5,000' runway where the controller said he needed the first airplane 3,000' down the runway in order for the second to land. I'm sure that both being category A airplanes and Part 91 would have something to do with it. I can't see two Boeing's or two Lear's occupying the same runway at the same time. Hopefully a former or current controller can shed some light on this.

 

[phishn@daves]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I was going into BNA last week in an ERJ...............

Situation: Pretty much VFR, some buildup's to fly around, but you could see the airport at all times. We were being vectored for a visual to one of the SW runways, mind you there are three parallel runways. We were at 9000 feet about 10 miles out and then were given a clearance to 6000 while on a base leg. They vectored us through the Loc about 2 miles and then back through in the opposite direction then cleared us for the visual.

With the ERJ you can be pretty high on a final and get it all dirty and make some pretty steep approaches, even when it looks like you can't............the plane tends to "drop" like a rock and end up on the glideslope about a mile out. Anyway, I was now about 4000 feet on about a three mile final and got the plane set up and I was pretty sure I wasn't going to make it, but continued.......well turns out I went around and was vectored back around for another visual, then they cleared us for a short approach for traffic. Almost had to go around again, but this time it worked out a little better.

This has happened twice to me in three time going there, one time resulted in a go-around. Does anyone know why they leave you up so high coming in there? I wanted to "get a phone number" from ATC and ask them why, but we had a pretty quick turn there, even quicker after going around.

Sorry about the run-on sentences, but that's how my brain thinks when I'm trying to get the details right!

See Ya

 

[js31pilot]

Try slipping it next time....works every time. Most of the time it won't be so severe as the passengers seeing the runway on one side of the airplane. Slightly higher workload, but not compared to a go around.

 

[FlyBigE]

Aborted T/O cause a Go Around

I was flying one night and our aborted takeoff cause a Falcon to go around. No a big deal right? Wrong, the tower was pissed along with the Falcon driver.

(Here are the facts)


The Wx: T'strorms in the area, moderate rain, and wind gusting to 25 knots and it was night.

ATC: Taxi into position and hold 18. Falcon on a 6 mile final

We do it and eventually get take off clearance and go. About 10 knots before V1 we get a master warning and a Low Oil Pressure light on one of the engines. So I announce aborted take off and begin stopping the plane. The captain calls the tower and tells them aborted takeoff

ATC: Negative, Negative! You have to go! Falcon over the number.

US: WE AREN'T GOING!!!

ATC: (Yelling) Falcon Go Around traffic on the runway. Turn Left 090 maintain 3000.

FALCON: What! Roger. (Sounding very puckered)

ATC: What's the problem (very agitated).

US: We need go to ramp the check some items associated with Master Warning.

ATC: Taxi to the ramp (with a lot of frustration in his voice)

(Approach is vectoring the falcon again)

ATC: Falcon, cleared to land 18

FALCON: Cleared to land, thanks for making things interesting guys (sounding pissed)

Out of all the emergencies I've witnessed, experience, or read about this was the least professional. Not once did ATC offer assistance, they actually seemed pissed along with the Falcon Driver.

What did we do wrong in aborting the takeoff? I'm sure as hell not going to take a broken airplane into the air unless I absolutely have to.

 

[metrodriver]

No you did the right thing by aborting, see thread about v1,vr, v2 in other 'general' section

 

[probablecause]

St. Louis… you gotta love St. Louis. eddie is right they base all of their takeoffs and landings on anticipated separation. It is not uncommon to see several go arounds a day there.

 

[Dizel8]

Originally posted by js31pilot :
"Try slipping it next time....works every time."

While this may work in a prop a/c, it is generally discouraged in jet aircraft, due to potential for compressor stalls etc.

While there are many ways of getting down, most companies have SOP's that require to be stabilized at some point. Jet aircraft in particular, may have long spool up times. If thrust still at idle at low altitude, things could get really interesting.

Just my two cents!

 

[chperplt]

You got to love LGA.. I'm taxing to parking on A, and I look to my left and an Eagle RJ initiates a go around from no more than 50 feet above the runway..

How many times have you heard.. S-turns approved for spacing.. only 2 miles between you and the 757 ahead.

How about we replace those controllers with ones that can actually handle the workload??