Reading Maxim in uniform

[g159av8tor]

When you F-up (and you grey hairs do just as much as us spikies) and are standing infront of the FAA it doesn't matter how nice your hat is you are still getting violated.

Um, is that getting violated with the power tools everyone's writing about?

Tailwinds...

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Reading Maxim in uniform is really tacky. This industry is getting less professional all the time! I'd give you a dirty look if I was sitting near you, and if I was your captain, I'd have a private man-to-man lesson on professionalism.

I'm getting really sick of seeing:

1. Pilots listening to Ipods
2. Pilots wearing backpacks
3. Reading Maxim or similar in public
4. Swearing in public
5. Pants from Sears that aren't even the right color blue
6. Your student pilot flight bag
7. Etc Etc!! I'm sure the FI crowd will come up with more...

Now I'm not a total shmuck - I think its perfectly acceptable to read whatever ya want in the cockpit - AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC EYE. Or, if conditions are appropriate, listing to an Ipod.

I completely agree! And I'm not from the 50s, I'm in my early 20s. There is a time and a place for these things.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Valid.

I believe B6 doesn't want its pilots using cell phones in public view.

Let's look at it from the public's perception. Realize that the public has a completely niave, superfical impression of flight crews. And thier preception is their reality and...it is their money.

As a culture we accept phone conversations as generally important. (sure there are crews in uniform that don't have professional conversations.... [maybe even with crew scheduling ]) So how does a pilot discriminate when using a cell phone in public. That is what the professionalism concept is all about. Professionals do not need to be policed.
.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree.

My personal life does not go on hold just because I'm wearing a pilot costume. The passengers that may (or may not) be offended aren't told that they can't call their loved ones, or manage their lives while they're in public, so why hold us to a different standard? Frankly, I think it's rude when they interrupt me to ask if their flight to Tokyo tomorrow is going to be on time. Passengers are rude, fickle, mindless, trolls when they come to the airport, and they expect us to bend over and kiss their butts just because they shelled out $199 for a transcontintental ticket. They don't own the airline and they don't own us. It kills me when pilots talk of how we have to take care of the passengers because they pay our paychecks. That's management kool-aid. The passengers will fly whoever has the cheapest ticket, period.

I'm also kind of tired of the constant debate about "professionalism". Read the AOPA magazine or Flying and you'll see what I mean. Everyone has their own definition, mostly based on themselves.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, except that you're the captain's guest, not the FA's. Another story of an FA who think's she's running the show. I would thank her for opinion and go back to reading. What's she going to do, pull the plane over and give you a spanking?

I tell you what she may do..... She will advise the CA that a guest is being diesresctful.

Let me get this straight. You get a FREE ride in someone elses house and you insist on behaving YOUR way? The money you saved on the FREE flight can buy you enough maxim magazines for years!

Jumpseating is not an entitlement.

If a jumpseater distracted my FA, I'd have words with the jumpseater. If he didn't concede and apologize, I'd call his union. If I didn't hear from the jumpseater then, I'd call his Chief Pilot. There is plenty of opportunity for the clown pilot to self correct. IOW the CP doesn't have to be called unless the clown pilot pushes the situation.

By now you are thinking I am a tool. Maybe.

But you come into someone elses house and treat a CA's family (crew) with disrespect and you still insist it is all about you!!!?? Absoultly incredible.

I tell the FA's that the cabin is thier total juristiction. I need to be unified with the crew. I have to work with the FA for hours or days after you have come onboard and disrupted the synergy that has been created. The last thing I need is an FA comlaning about some toolbox jumpseater and how I didn't support him/her.

Who is the tool?

Some pilots when they jumpseat actually stop what they are doing and observe the FA safety briefing..... A show of respect. Others think the FA's are house servants to bring them drinks and take thier trash....

Which one are you?


Last week I helped the FA's get pax carry-ons stowed in the overhead. The lead was so grateful she offered to buy me a beer. I was polite and declined. Civility and professionalism sure makes this job alot better.

Jumpseating Tips
· When filling out paperwork, write the time of check-in for first-come, first-served.
· Courtesy goes a long way when jumpseating.
· Make sure you have a Plan B and C.
· Usually only U.S. air carriers allow jumpseating, except air carriers listed in the agreement list.
· Some agreements do not include int’l travel (AA and CAL).
· Consider jumpseating on cargo airlines. The aircraft usually have bunk beds and/or first-class seats.
· Travel light. Big or multiple bags can create problems.
· It is greatly appreciated and respectful to observe the flight attendants’ briefing.
· Do not give or receive money if a pilot offers to use an airline pass that may or may not have a fee.

​

 

[Snaab]

The FA you're talking about shouldn't be so offended....She should mind her business and let you be. I don't swear in public in uniform, but if I'm deadheading, I think it's perfectly acceptable to listen to an IPOD...As long as you don't fist-pump and air-guitar!

I non-rev'd on a flight from IAD-SAN a few weeks ago (in uniform). I listened to my IPOD and read Guitar Player for most of the flight. The guy sitting next to me said he thought it was cool that pilots have interests outside of just flying. I happened be be reading an article about Zeppelin IV, at the moment.

I read WSJ but I won't simply read it to appear "intelligent" or appease certain strangers on a plane. Be your own person! That doesn't mean be a jerk, though. I want to represent myself and my airline well at all times.

That said, I do think some FA's are way too overzealous sometimes and look for something to make a stink about. If I were the dude reading Maxim (I don't read it), I'd keep on reading. I almost always help my FAs clean up and get the seat pockets in order after flights- we're part of a team. I always volunteer if I'm deadheading or non-revving to do the same. But if I were treated like crap or given a hard time when it wasn't necessary, I'll head right off to do my walkaround or grab my overhead bag and leave. Just my .02.

Snaab

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree.

My personal life does not go on hold just because I'm wearing a pilot costume. The passengers that may (or may not) be offended aren't told that they can't call their loved ones, or manage their lives while they're in public, so why hold us to a different standard? Frankly, I think it's rude when they interrupt me to ask if their flight to Tokyo tomorrow is going to be on time. Passengers are rude, fickle, mindless, trolls when they come to the airport, and they expect us to bend over and kiss their butts just because they shelled out $199 for a transcontintental ticket. They don't own the airline and they don't own us. It kills me when pilots talk of how we have to take care of the passengers because they pay our paychecks. That's management kool-aid. The passengers will fly whoever has the cheapest ticket, period.

I'm also kind of tired of the constant debate about "professionalism". Read the AOPA magazine or Flying and you'll see what I mean. Everyone has their own definition, mostly based on themselves.

Funny, I just repsonded to your other post as you did mine...

JP,

Not sure what your expectations are for this career, but I can tell you that you are going down the wrong path.

Your post above screams entitlement and 'What can I get out of this for me'.

Professionals have an inherent trust in themsleves and in their profession that if they serve thier customers, patients or clients, then they themselves will reap the rewards. It therefore starts with you.

As you continue in this job you are going to find it increasingly unpleasant. You will not realize job satisfaction and hopefully, for yourself and the rest of us, you will find another profession.

If you'd like remain in this profession may I suggest the following

• Servant Leadership
• Shackleton's Way
• Nuts
• The SWA Way
• Customer Culture: How FedEx and Other Great Companies Put the Customer First Every Day

 

[John Pennekamp]

I tell you what she may do..... She will advise the CA that a guest is being diesresctful.

Let me get this straight. You get a FREE ride in someone elses house and you insist on behaving YOUR way? The money you saved on the FREE flight can buy you enough maxim magazines for years!

Jumpseating is not an entitlement.

You're kidding, right? Show me where it includes mind control as a condition of accepting a free ride. Let the lad read whatever he wants! Do you give your jumpseaters propaganda to read? Do you screen their reading material?

If a jumpseater distracted my FA, I'd have words with the jumpseater. If he didn't concede and apologize, I'd call his union. If I didn't hear from the jumpseater then, I'd call his Chief Pilot. There is plenty of opportunity for the clown pilot to self correct. IOW the CP doesn't have to be called unless the clown pilot pushes the situation.

By now you are thinking I am a tool. Maybe.

Yes. You, sir are a tool. Tattle all you want, we're talking about a stinking magazine here!

But you come into someone elses house and treat a CA's family (crew) with disrespect and you still insist it is all about you!!!?? Absoultly incredible.

I tell the FA's that the cabin is thier total juristiction. I need to be unified with the crew. I have to work with the FA for hours or days after you have come onboard and disrupted the synergy that has been created. The last thing I need is an FA comlaning about some toolbox jumpseater and how I didn't support him/her.

Who is the tool?

Still you, apparently. I too tell my FAs they own the cabin. I also expect them to treat MY guest courteously. If this happened on my airplane, the FA would get a lecture, not the jumpseater. Bottom line, the FA was out of line.

Some pilots when they jumpseat actually stop what they are doing and observe the FA safety briefing..... A show of respect. Others think the FA's are house servants to bring them drinks and take thier trash....

Which one are you?

A little of both, I guess.

Last week I helped the FA's get pax carry-ons stowed in the overhead. The lead was so grateful she offered to buy me a beer. I was polite and declined. Civility and professionalism sure makes this job alot better.

I'm nominating you for the Award of Excellence! You too can go rub elbows in the Caribbean with your management buddies! Thanks for playing. Chalk one up for another pimple faced Riddle kid who thinks they know it all after 5 years in the industry.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Funny, I just repsonded to your other post as you did mine...

JP,

Not sure what your expectations are for this career, but I can tell you that you are going down the wrong path.

Your post above screams entitlement and 'What can I get out of this for me'.

Professionals have an inherent trust in themsleves and in their profession that if they serve thier customers, patients or clients, then they themselves will reap the rewards. It therefore starts with you.

As you continue in this job you are going to find it increasingly unpleasant. You will not realize job satisfaction and hopefully, for yourself and the rest of us, you will find another profession.

If you'd like remain in this profession may I suggest the following

• Servant Leadership
• Shackleton's Way
• Nuts
• The SWA Way
• Customer Culture: How FedEx and Other Great Companies Put the Customer First Every Day

Don't talk to me like your child. I have more time in this profession than you have wiping your bottom.

 

[temcgrew]

I bust out my Michigan Out of Doors (Basically a conservastion/hunting/fishing in an equal mix,) and proceed to relax and read. I hear "I don't like hunting," out of the trashy whores mouth, and I mummble a reply to the effect of "oh that's too bad, or sorry you don't." She got visably upset at that comment and goes on how since she didn't like hunting I should have the decency of not reading about it front of her, blah, blah, blah. I told her to not like hunting in one of the rows aft of us, and I'll go on not liking her right here. Seemed to work, never heard anorther word out of her.

I was scanning the channels in the crew room the other day and came across a hunting show. They were shooting geese and the flight attendant sitting with me about came unglued! It was hilarious! I kept it there long enough to get a rise out of her and then turned the channel. As I was scanning the channel, CNN came on with an old report of the Pope getting shot. She didn't freak out so I had to ask her why she doesn't get all bent out of shape when a person gets shot, only birds. "Well, the birds are innocent and cannot protect themselves." O.K. and the Pope can stop a bullet?

 

[wmuflyguy]

WMUFLYGUY - I think the Editors of Maxim would be highly dissapointed in you! Their take would be to turn the interest in your reading material by the F/A an opportunity! You should have turned that passive agressiveness right on back around and said, "Hey, its not that bad. Sit down next to me here and take a look!" Quite frankly, the women photographed for Maxim are no less scantilly-clad than those in Cosmo, or even Shape (yeah...Shape, the exercise mag, seriously). You could then ask questions about which women she finds more attractive, one thing leads to another....you get it? The added benefit is crew harmony...

'Course that wouldn't be good if she was a total hag.

I get it, but no way I was going to jump on that grenade.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I-pod in the terminal

Well I find it acceptable, if I'm on one of the splendid airport appreciation breaks to lsiten to my MP3 player while sitting or eating lunch.

I don't think it looks good to walk around with it on, but I wouldn't get bent out of shape over it.

I walked around with it on a few times and got some dirty looks form paxs and other crewmembers so i knocked it off(I guess I look young and have had people question me about my age, so i try to not look like a punk ), but if i'm on a break and just sitting around, I will listen to it.

 

[Prog 2/2]

The majority of pilots I fly with are younger than me, and I just don't see in-the-public-eye professionalism as being primarily an age issue.

I agree with you more than is probably apparent.

Outside the context of this board, I'd say my experience is much the same as yours and I think we would be on the same page.

But within the confines of this thread, I see a real dividing line. Hence the qualifying statement of "younger".

See my next post for an example.

 

[ASADFW7]

Well. I wear my Ipod and listen to it when I walk from C to D in ATL I hope it is not a big deal. I am aware of how it looks and you know I say it is my five minutes of peace between flights I am on duty, however I have the hat on and turn it off if someone asks me a question.

 

[Prog 2/2]

you know prog2/2... Your ranting reminds me of my first corporate job. The Cheif pilot told me on my first day "what is your job as an F/O?" I told him I thought it was to perform the duties outlined in our SOP's. Provide all useful information during WX/emergency information ect. (Keep in mind my shoes are always shined shirts and pants always drycleaned and pressed.)

He told me I was wrong. I was very confused at this point and asked then what was my job. He responded "To make the Captain look good!" "If you do that, then someday you will have an F/O to make you look good no matter how much you screw up. A Captains job is to look like he knows what he is doing."

Guess what. Your first Chief Pilot belonged in a red Craftsman box. Top drawer next to the screwdrivers.

He was about 50 something and came from that golden era mind set of always the Capt's leg, get the coffee, and suck my _____. Your ranting reminds me of that retard. alot of your 40-50 something capts feel like you are heros no matter what and anyone that isn't in their 30's is a scumbag.


How you got that out of what I posted, I can only guess.


you feel we all need to have a 1950's haircuts, shined shoes, and a hat or we are not worth dirt.


I don't. The public at large just might, though.


Look at pilot skills and attitude before you judge the younger generation buddy. When you F-up (and you grey hairs do just as much as us spikies) and are standing infront of the FAA it doesn't matter how nice your hat is you are still getting violated.

You're gonna prove my point for me right here.

I get to look at your skills and attitude, as you do mine, and that helps us make a judgement about one another as professionals.

The average schmuck walking through the terminal gets no such peek at the "inner you". All he sees is what is in front of him, and he makes his judgement of your professional standing based on that.

-----

 

[skiandsurf]

I would be insulted if someone had to tell me how to act or dress. It is almost insulting that my FOM tells me that I cant wear "facial jewelry". I am insulted that my employer would think that I would wear a nose ring. I am insulted that my company has to tell me, via the FOM, that I must wear black shoes and blue socks. I am insulted that they dont think I know how to dress myself. I would be insulted if a FA had to tell me what was inappropriate reading material.

Dont get me wrong, I have one of the foulest mouths away from the airport. I only wear shorts or jeans, away from the airport. I like to ride motorcycles and snow ski, but you would never know that while I was at work.

Dress appropriate. Act appropriate. = Dress professional. Act professional.

 

[Soverytired]

Much as I like looking at "da boobies", I throw these things out when I find 'em in the flight deck.

You're just one shriveled-up, man-hating sky hag away from a sex harassment suit otherwise.

What a world we live in.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You're kidding, right? Show me where it includes mind control as a condition of accepting a free ride. Let the lad read whatever he wants! Do you give your jumpseaters propaganda to read? Do you screen their reading material?.

Show me where it says you are entitled, deserve or earned a free ride. I don't screen thier reading material, but I screen their attitude and behavior. Bad attitude means no jumpseat. What I look for in a jumpseater and how I try to behave as a jumpseater is with: humilty, repsect (both self and of others), a request, proper docs, a positive attitude and gratittude.

Yes. You, sir are a tool. Tattle all you want, we're talking about a stinking magazine here! .

No tattling here. Plenty of opportunity for one to self correct. Poor behavior was highlighted. Consequences of not recognizing poor behavior and apologizing where indicated. Thus giving the offending free ride pilot an understanding that HE does not run the show on anothers ship.

Yeah we are talking about a magazine, but we are really talking about offensive behavior. What do hope to gain by offending a crew you are getting a free ride. Is your ego that important that you have to have it your way? Besides what is so important in Maxim mag or any entertainment mag that it must be read on a jet. Can't it wait till you get home? Or go to the LAV and read it.

Still you, apparently. I too tell my FAs they own the cabin. I also expect them to treat MY guest courteously. If this happened on my airplane, the FA would get a lecture, not the jumpseater. Bottom line, the FA was out of line.
.

Translation to your FA's: You own the cabin, but if a jumpseater offends you and I, Capt. John Pannekamp, agree with the jumpseater, then I will lecture you. You can only be offended if I say so. I will tell you how to feel. I, your Capt, will control your mind as part of you accepting employment here and agreeing to serve under my command.

FA's in my crew come before jumpseaters. They show up before the jumpseater and stay alot longer than jumpseaters... I am comfortable with this priority schedule. I am not going to sacrifice a FA's postive attitude or offend her so some clown can read an entertainment magazine.

A little of both, I guess..

I don't guess. In this situation I know. FA's don't have to do anything for jumpseaters. I don't expect them to either.

I'm nominating you for the Award of Excellence! You too can go rub elbows in the Caribbean with your management buddies! Thanks for playing. Chalk one up for another pimple faced Riddle kid who thinks they know it all after 5 years in the industry.

Boeingman, DAngelo, Dave Benjiman, Sig, Fins etc..... I am being accused of being pro-management! If I were in the carrib with management they'd see my ALPA ink. (no, I really don't have an ALPA tattoo! )

Man attitudes like yours indicate, when an emergency hits you are the first one out the door. Stepping over old ladies and kids. You're a real gem.

It is incredibly clear that you are disapointed with your job and career. Your expectations aren't being met. This issue is a tip of the icebeg with your problem. Call your buddies up, buy a six pack and let it all out man!

 

[No.W.]

Funny story, I was swapping planes with a friend of mine...He was wearing His backpack during His post-flight walkaround. I said, "NICE backpack, DUDE". He said, yeah, my gun's in there...I figure leaving it sitting unsupervised would be a bad thing. I said(feeling pretty dumb for calling him out), "Oh, yeah, so how was that FFDO training?" We commenced a short convo about FFDOs. If a man has a gun, he can wear a backpack in my book. Anyway, all of this discussion is a result of the post-modern mindset. Basically, "I'm not going to do something because you said so, or because it's "right"...I'll only do something because you prove, empirically, it is the correct thing to do" Since things like etiquette and professionalism are currently up for debate(due to post modern thinking), this issue will NEVER be resolved. BUT, continue arguing, it's fun to watch...

 

[Ty Webb]

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

WMUFLYGUY - I think the Editors of Maxim would be highly dissapointed in you! Their take would be to turn the interest in your reading material by the F/A an opportunity! You should have turned that passive agressiveness right on back around and said, "Hey, its not that bad. Sit down next to me here and take a look!" . . . . . . . . . . .. You could then ask questions about which women she finds more attractive, one thing leads to another....you get it? The added benefit is crew harmony...

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Thanks for playing.


.

 

[PCL_128]

Rez, you and I are usually on the same page on this stuff, but I've got to disagree with you here. I agree that the Maxim is inappropriate to be reading in uniform (I won't even purchase one while in uniform), but the FA is out of line to be telling the jumpseater what to do. She can politely request it, but that should be as far as it goes. If any demands are going to be made of the jumpseater, they should be made by the Captain of that flight, not the FA.

If a jumpseater distracted my FA, I'd have words
with the jumpseater.

I look at it the other way around. If my FA gave the jumpseater (MY guest) a hassle, then I would have words with the FA. I will not put up with FAs being rude to a jumpseater that is there as my guest.

I tell the FA's that the cabin is thier total juristiction.

This is one of my pet peeves. The entire airplane is the Captain's jurisdiction.

 

[MMO 0.705]

Rez O Lewshun....its only a job man.....not a civic duty....who cares....do what makes you happy and if that includes listening to the ipod in the terminal ..tell everyone to f**#k off

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, you and I are usually on the same page on this stuff, but I've got to disagree with you here. I agree that the Maxim is inappropriate to be reading in uniform (I won't even purchase one while in uniform), but the FA is out of line to be telling the jumpseater what to do. She can politely request it, but that should be as far as it goes. If any demands are going to be made of the jumpseater, they should be made by the Captain of that flight, not the FA..

Well, we might be argueing semantics.....

Who represents the CA's authority during flight, with the cockpit door closed? If you can't delegate your authority to the people who work for you then I suggest your mindset change. AND trust them that they will do the right thing............if you can't then that says more about you than the people that work for you.

How is this going to go down? FA complains that jumpseaters behavior is inappropriate (whatever it may be...). CA asks FA to ask J/S'er to talk to CA on interphone so CA can correct the J/S'er.

I see the issue entirely with the jumpseater. If his/her behavior is enough that it catches the attention the FA, that is enough for me. Sure I'll get both sides of the story, but it really isn't that difficult to NOT attract negative attention.

That is what is comes down to. My crew comes first. Jumpseaters second. Look the jumpseater is already on. He has gotten what he wanted. A free ride. If the FA is rude to him, how important is it for the jumpseater to get an apology. Just smile and get off the jet. Move on. Get over it.

But really, this is getting petty... 90% of the time there is no jumpseater issue becuase 90% of the jumpseaters are...... professional. (dang it... I said it...that crusty ol 12 letter word of yesteryear!)

I look at it the other way around. If my FA gave the jumpseater (MY guest) a hassle, then I would have words with the FA. I will not put up with FAs being rude to a jumpseater that is there as my guest..

Sounds a bit old school.... King-ish. Patriarch. Capt is G-O-D. Ernie Gann stuff..... But what it really comes down to is civility, repsect, trust and professionalism. It is not that difficult to do. And 90% of time crews are .....so what is the big deal.

This is one of my pet peeves. The entire airplane is the Captain's jurisdiction.

Don't worry. You get all the authority and all the responsibility. And the reward. Nobody is trying to take it away from you.

But you can't do it all. You can't do the safety briefing, serve the drinks and fly the jet. Only rarely do you need to brush the dust off the fourth stripe. 90% of the time the operation runs smoothly without CA's declaring the boundries of his sandbox, huffing his chest and declaring his royal rights. Good CA's never have to do this...I see more fiefdom attitude here then teamwork.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez O Lewshun....its only a job man.....not a civic duty....who cares....do what makes you happy and if that includes listening to the ipod in the terminal ..tell everyone to f**#k off

Only a job.... I'm fighting real hard.... to keep it a profession. I can get a job anywhere, anytime.. But to find a profession that is worth it and fun is alot more difficult. If we think it is a job, then that is what we deserve and all the perks that come with a job.

If you don't care then we don't care. Someone has got to have concern and the courage to do so..... otherwise the whole thing does down the toilet.

Well... as a professional with a personal code, I tell can't everyone to F off.

If I tell my Chief Pilot to F-off, the carpet dance and paperwork just isn't worth it.

If I tell my crewmemebers to F off then my effectiveness with them goes south.

If I tell my passengers to F off then they won't comeback and will find another brand.

I just don't see the value in telling others to F off just so I can wear an Ipod in uniform. It is not that important to me.... But that is just me... If you feel it is important to wear an Ipod and tell others to F off, then be your own man...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Show me where it says you are entitled, deserve or earned a free ride. I don't screen thier reading material, but I screen their attitude and behavior. Bad attitude means no jumpseat. What I look for in a jumpseater and how I try to behave as a jumpseater is with: humilty, repsect (both self and of others), a request, proper docs, a positive attitude and gratittude.




No tattling here. Plenty of opportunity for one to self correct. Poor behavior was highlighted. Consequences of not recognizing poor behavior and apologizing where indicated. Thus giving the offending free ride pilot an understanding that HE does not run the show on anothers ship.

Yeah we are talking about a magazine, but we are really talking about offensive behavior. What do hope to gain by offending a crew you are getting a free ride. Is your ego that important that you have to have it your way? Besides what is so important in Maxim mag or any entertainment mag that it must be read on a jet. Can't it wait till you get home? Or go to the LAV and read it.



Translation to your FA's: You own the cabin, but if a jumpseater offends you and I, Capt. John Pannekamp, agree with the jumpseater, then I will lecture you. You can only be offended if I say so. I will tell you how to feel. I, your Capt, will control your mind as part of you accepting employment here and agreeing to serve under my command.

FA's in my crew come before jumpseaters. They show up before the jumpseater and stay alot longer than jumpseaters... I am comfortable with this priority schedule. I am not going to sacrifice a FA's postive attitude or offend her so some clown can read an entertainment magazine.



I don't guess. In this situation I know. FA's don't have to do anything for jumpseaters. I don't expect them to either.



Boeingman, DAngelo, Dave Benjiman, Sig, Fins etc..... I am being accused of being pro-management! If I were in the carrib with management they'd see my ALPA ink. (no, I really don't have an ALPA tattoo! )

Man attitudes like yours indicate, when an emergency hits you are the first one out the door. Stepping over old ladies and kids. You're a real gem.

It is incredibly clear that you are disapointed with your job and career. Your expectations aren't being met. This issue is a tip of the icebeg with your problem. Call your buddies up, buy a six pack and let it all out man!

Dude, you've got some serious control issues. I don't screen my jumpseaters for anything except proper credentials. Jumpseating is "Professional Courtesy". Quit acting like a skynazi and give the guys a ride, not a judge of "attitude".

By the way, I love my job, but I don't love my company. And the cheap shot about stepping over old ladies only further demonstrates your lack of character and integrity.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If a man has a gun, he can wear a backpack in my book.

Anyway, all of this discussion is a result of the post-modern mindset. ...

If an FFDO has a gun, he can carry a small black nylon/ballistic bag slightly larger than the metal case. Many do... looks sharp. But hey, if you can intimidate or be intimidated by a backpack wearing dude with a gun....

More on the post modern mindset...

Basically, "I'm not going to do something because you said so, or because it's "right"...I'll only do something because you prove, empirically, it is the correct thing to do" ...

I always thought we did things cause it was the right think to do.... but that seems so subjective nowadays... Or maybe it is just the current culture of instant gratification and selfishness.....

Not sure how to prove empirically that something is the right thing to do... again..its subjective...

Since things like etiquette and professionalism are currently up for debate(due to post modern thinking), this issue will NEVER be resolved. BUT, continue arguing, it's fun to watch...

Post modern thinking is servant leadership and eglitarianism. Class structure and hiearchies are old school. No this is not socialism. It is teamwork and problem solving. It is goal setting and effectiveness. If people are of the mindset of "Up yours I got mine", then this isn't for you......

 

[PCL_128]

Well, we might be argueing semantics.....

Who represents the CA's authority during flight, with the cockpit door closed? If you can't delegate your authority to the people who work for you then I suggest your mindset change. AND trust them that they will do the right thing............if you can't then that says more about you than the people that work for you.

How is this going to go down? FA complains that jumpseaters behavior is inappropriate (whatever it may be...). CA asks FA to ask J/S'er to talk to CA on interphone so CA can correct the J/S'er.

I see the issue entirely with the jumpseater. If his/her behavior is enough that it catches the attention the FA, that is enough for me. Sure I'll get both sides of the story, but it really isn't that difficult to NOT attract negative attention.

The problem is this: I've seen far too many FAs that have an attitude problem that translates into bad treatment of jumpseaters. Some of them have a problem with the fact that pilots ride for free when they have to buy passes, and others are just plain old skyhags that are rude to all passengers anyway. Whatever the case, it is unacceptable for our fellow pilots to be treated poorly by an FA. With all else equal, my fellow pilot gets the benefit of the doubt. If the FA has a valid concern (jumpseater drinking alcohol during flight, reading pornographic material, using inappropriate language, etc...), then the FA needs to bring it to my attention. I can decide how to handle it from there.

Remember, the jumpseat isn't just some "free ride," it is a professional courtesy offered from a Captain to a fellow pilot. We should do our best to make sure that the jumpseater is treated fairly by the gate agents and FAs. Simply blowing it off as a "free ride" and suggesting that the jumpseater should just put up with whatever abuse he is given is just wrong. Your fellow pilot deserves better than that.

That is what is comes down to. My crew comes first. Jumpseaters second.

That's inconsistent. The jumpseater is a part of the crew. XCM = extra crew member.

Sounds a bit old school

No argument there. I'm very much "old school." I don't view that as a bad thing.

Don't worry. You get all the authority and all the responsibility. And the reward. Nobody is trying to take it away from you.

I disagree. Do you honestly believe that there hasn't been a slow erosion of PIC authority over the years? Ask the Captains at UPS that have been told by the FAA that they cannot deny company jumpseaters. The old idea of "the Captain is God" certainly wasn't right, but neither is what we are sliding towards now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Dude, you've got some serious control issues. I don't screen my jumpseaters for anything except proper credentials. Jumpseating is "Professional Courtesy". Quit acting like a skynazi and give the guys a ride, not a judge of "attitude".

By the way, I love my job, but I don't love my company. And the cheap shot about stepping over old ladies only further demonstrates your lack of character and integrity.

Control Issues? Well maybe. I do control my jumpseat. Why? There are many in this industry that would love to take away jumpseating for good. As pilots we have fought very hard to keep the one last perk this career provides. One or a couple of screw ups and jumpseatting is restricted or gone!

Piss off a FA..fine. As a CA you don't support her... fine. She goes to her management and writes it up. Management solution.... jumpseat on XYZ Airlines is banned for good or 90 days or whatever...

You guys are priceless....


I guess we will agree to diagree. It is also a Professional Courtesy.....as a jumpseater... to be shall I say..... I don't know...maybe.....be..courteous.

Proper crendentials doesn't demand or entitle a free ride. That is only the half of it.

It is either a cheap shot or an indication of how you come across.....

 

[wmuflyguy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xjmnpilot
WMUFLYGUY - I think the Editors of Maxim would be highly dissapointed in you! Their take would be to turn the interest in your reading material by the F/A an opportunity! You should have turned that passive agressiveness right on back around and said, "Hey, its not that bad. Sit down next to me here and take a look!" . . . . . . . . . . .. You could then ask questions about which women she finds more attractive, one thing leads to another....you get it? The added benefit is crew harmony...



Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Thanks for playing.


.

Guys this was your typical DAL FA. If your into that kidna thing knock yourself out, but she was as old as my mom.

 

[The_Russian]

I don't have much time to post, but I agree with Rez 100%. We wear a uniform because we are professionals. We have a civic duty do transport people safely though the air to their destination. If you want it to be just a job, please hang your hat and leave. As for myself and every aviator I know that cares about this profession, we prefer to make it our lifestyle. We make it our lifestyle because it is our duty to. We must know everything we can surrounding the field of aeronautical knowledge and subjects. Just as other professions that care, teach, and serve the general public. We must maintain our professional mindset at all times.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The problem is this: I've seen far too many FAs that have an attitude problem that translates into bad treatment of jumpseaters. Some of them have a problem with the fact that pilots ride for free when they have to buy passes, and others are just plain old skyhags that are rude to all passengers anyway. Whatever the case, it is unacceptable for our fellow pilots to be treated poorly by an FA. With all else equal, my fellow pilot gets the benefit of the doubt. If the FA has a valid concern (jumpseater drinking alcohol during flight, reading pornographic material, using inappropriate language, etc...), then the FA needs to bring it to my attention. I can decide how to handle it from there..

I think that is a perception of yours....a stereo type of FAs.

I also believe we are arguing the nitty gritty, but what it really comes down to is leadership style...

In the very rare case that a FA and jumpseater has a conflict, I think a good CA can resolve the issue with all parties maintaining their respect, dignity and trust.

Remember, the jumpseat isn't just some "free ride," it is a professional courtesy offered from a Captain to a fellow pilot. We should do our best to make sure that the jumpseater is treated fairly by the gate agents and FAs. Simply blowing it off as a "free ride" and suggesting that the jumpseater should just put up with whatever abuse he is given is just wrong. Your fellow pilot deserves better than that..

Again, I am sensing a pre-dispostiton...almost an us vs. them. Almost that you are on constant look out for agents and FAs treating fellow pilots poorly.

That's inconsistent. The jumpseater is a part of the crew. XCM = extra crew member..

Wow. I get the impression you'd favor a jumpseater over your FA. One crew member that is on board for one flight who isn't required over a required crew member that you have to work with for up to four days! Yikes!

Again, I think a good leader doesn't have to choose between the two....

No argument there. I'm very much "old school." I don't view that as a bad thing..

Those who can't adapt, adjust, innovate and evolve will be left behind. I remember your way of thinking in my own head...

I disagree. Do you honestly believe that there hasn't been a slow erosion of PIC authority over the years? Ask the Captains at UPS that have been told by the FAA that they cannot deny company jumpseaters. The old idea of "the Captain is God" certainly wasn't right, but neither is what we are sliding towards now.

Again... the evolution... There are local cases where PIC authority is challenged but it has always been like that from the beginning. The authority gradient has shallowed, however the PIC authority isn't compromised. I don't think it is in my flights...but that is just me....

I am currently reading Shackleton's Way. An incredible analysis of one of the greatest successful failures. In fact I am disapointed in myself for not reading by posting here.... (my ego....). Shackleton was one of the greatest leaders of all time and he did in ways that would intimidate and unrest many. All of this happened in 1914-1916. Shackleton lived in "Old School" times.. but he was far ahead of us today....