Re-regulation

[414Flyer]

Hey Fam, let's just remember here that back in 89' we did'nt have 1 billion American households with internet capability using modern day Robin Hood sites like Travelocity scanning for the most cheapest thing available with Jet fuel.......Let's face it more than 90% of Americans could care less which Airline they get on, their willing to be stuffed like sardines for 2 hours or more just to get to their destination at the lowest fare.....It's Called WALMARTIZATION!

Isnt there a certain irony to pilots calling others cheap?

last I checked, i have not heard of pilots, or anyone on here for that mattter, paying more than they need to for things.

I would be interested though if you can find any posts here where a pilot has ever inquired as to how they can buy something that provides the most pay and benefits to those who make the products or sell them.

My point is that yes, people do look for the cheapest way to buy something, but then is the aviation community any different?

 

[Dizel8]

The ones calling for reregulation, are the ones who do not like competetion!

 

[Lear70]

Don't give a rat's a*s about "competition".

I do, however, care quite a bit about how degraded this profession has become in the "post-deregulation" world, not to mention how degraded the quality of product offered has become as well.

Come to think of it, the only people benefiting are the trailer trash who wouldn't have been able to afford reasonably-priced tickets (that's tickets that pay for the expenses and make a profit).

Fuel hedging won't last forever...

 

[DrewBlows]

I would be interested though if you can find any posts here where a pilot has ever inquired as to how they can buy something that provides the most pay and benefits to those who make the products or sell them.

My point is that yes, people do look for the cheapest way to buy something, but then is the aviation community any different?

I think about the pay and benefits of the employees who make/provide a product before I buy. I only drive American cars and refuse to shop at Wal-Mart. These are small things but they go a long way. Oh, and if I ever had to pay to travel I sure as hell wouldn't cross a picket line to do it.

 

[Godvek]

I think about the pay and benefits of the employees who make/provide a product before I buy. I only drive American cars and refuse to shop at Wal-Mart. These are small things but they go a long way. Oh, and if I ever had to pay to travel I sure as hell wouldn't cross a picket line to do it.

Is there such a thing anymore as an "American" car? Or are you referring to Toyota and KIA?

I also try not to shop at Walmart, China's economy is doing quite fine.

 

[pilotyip]

Lear 70 those "Trailer Trash" are buying tickets on SWA/JB/AirTran and have they have created many many highly sought after flying jobs. Aren't those all good jobs?

 

[Lear70]

Lear 70 those "Trailer Trash" are buying tickets on SWA/JB/AirTran and have they have created many many highly sought after flying jobs. Aren't those all good jobs?

They are certainly "good" jobs, as compared with a regional airline job, but not anything compared with what jobs WERE...

The only "great" jobs left are really FedEx and UPS, although I'd leave here to go to any of the three you mentioned just to improve my family's quality of life.

Unfortunately, as a pilot, there isn't much I can do to "raise the bar" except vote "no" when a contract comes that doesn't put us where we SHOULD be in pay and quality of life. When an airline won't raise ticket prices to cover their expenses and as a work group we increase those expenses even further, the problem only gets worse, not better, as the carrier either (now) files bankruptcy and voids your contract or goes out of business. Unfortunately, with today's laws, it's never the latter.

Wouldn't want to be out on the street if our carrier (NWA) was allowed to fail because they wouldn't raise prices, but if it resulted in things going back to the way they WERE during regulation, I'd take that chance at having a better CAREER.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Reregulation will cause the loss of many pilot jobs. We will go back to a time when in history where it was very hard to get a flying job. And yes, the few pilots who still have jobs will be paid very well.


You willing to lose your job to improve someone else's?

 

[Publishers]

I think that you guys are wasting too much energy on what used to be. No one has said they way things used to be was correct. Was the profession looked on differently, yes and that is not coming back. For many of those years, flying was considered some kind of adventure into the unknown. Regulation and unionism allowed the wages to grow and fuel the desire for the job. In the end of regulation, some thought that things were really out of hand.

With deregulation, the ability of a carrier to withstand a strike went to zero and many of them caved in to demands that really were not in line with what was happening in the business. This is still a business you know. In regulation, there was not all this comptetition waiting in the wings to take your marketshare.

This society will not stand for re-regulation nor will the job ever be looked at like some exotic dangerous profession. Flying has become safer, the world better educated, in some ways the job easier, and we will not be going back in our lifetimes. for the most part, it will be paid in line with a decent mid level management job.

 

[AAflyer]

Free markets work well absent of artificial impacts. That is the probelm. Big international carriers are fighting against government supported airlines, in short, artificial influence.

To put together that international airline, you need to hub and spoke to consolidate traffic. Understanding the symbiotic effects is the hardest part of air system infrastructure.

Do you not think what the goverment allows these airlines to do under the guise of BK is not "government supported"? Any other business would cease, yet airlines limber along for years in BK not paying bills, taking from employees, and restructuring under no impending time frame. This is all being done under government approved bankcruptcy laws.

How do you think Virgin Atlantic likes competing against bankcrupt airlines not paying theirs bills.

Many airlines are currently "government supported", the only problem is the "average" American can't see it.

AA

 

[AAflyer]

I think that you guys are wasting too much energy on what used to be. No one has said they way things used to be was correct. Was the profession looked on differently, yes and that is not coming back. For many of those years, flying was considered some kind of adventure into the unknown. Regulation and unionism allowed the wages to grow and fuel the desire for the job. In the end of regulation, some thought that things were really out of hand.

With deregulation, the ability of a carrier to withstand a strike went to zero and many of them caved in to demands that really were not in line with what was happening in the business. This is still a business you know. In regulation, there was not all this comptetition waiting in the wings to take your marketshare.

This society will not stand for re-regulation nor will the job ever be looked at like some exotic dangerous profession. Flying has become safer, the world better educated, in some ways the job easier, and we will not be going back in our lifetimes. for the most part, it will be paid in line with a decent mid level management job.

Society may not stand for it, but if there comes a day when the pilots of SWA, JB, AirTran along with the pilots of the "legacies" take more and more paycuts to "subsidize" the flying publics' demand for cheap tickets the airlines employees may demand it.

With the ability to park every jet in this country they will have the power to get it. As we continue to spiral downwards there seems to be realization that we are "all" in this together, and when that comes together the "pilots of this country" will have a very strong voice.

AA

 

[SWA GUY]

See guys the problem with this industry is all SWA/JB/Aitran's fault.

AAflyer you slay me!

Sorry we are messing up the industry. <<<Yawn>>>

 

[Publishers]

The thing that keeps the airlines going under BK is cash flow, hidden reserves, and revenue. These are the things that have to be there for a BK filing to work. If they do not exist, then you switch to chapter 7 and adios.

If you have a revenue stream, and, you have items in hidden reserve (good value at low book value), then cash is produced and you can pay your current operatiing expenses hence staying in business.

This description applies to most airlines. Many bankruptcies do not have these things going for them. Think about it. If you can be absolved of your long term debt and only have to worry about current expenses, can you produce positive cash flow. If you lose your job, that may not be possible.

The law is in place so that companies and individuals can have a second chance if things get out of control. Still, the basics have to be there. If you have 0 assets to pledge as collateral, 0 assets with value in them, and revenue is sinking faster than the Titantic, you cannot go on.

 

[Lear70]

Reregulation will cause the loss of many pilot jobs. We will go back to a time when in history where it was very hard to get a flying job. And yes, the few pilots who still have jobs will be paid very well.


You willing to lose your job to improve someone else's?

Yup. Read the last line of my last post.

Family business building houses and commercial real estate pays better and I'm home at night. I can do that until I can find another flying job - life goes on.

 

[Speed Turd]

I posted this earlier in general, but since it really applies to you guys. What do you think about Re-Regulating the airlines? Partial re-regualtion?. I don't think this industry can stay in this current cycle much longer. Legacies aren't allowed to fail, lives being ruined, pesions gone, jobs gone. I'm not convinced that unregulated competition will ever work in this indusrty. It sure isn't now.

Pinko commie!