Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Re-regulation

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

cezzna

Remeber the analog
Joined
Jan 24, 2003
Posts
291
I posted this earlier in general, but since it really applies to you guys. What do you think about Re-Regulating the airlines? Partial re-regualtion?. I don't think this industry can stay in this current cycle much longer. Legacies aren't allowed to fail, lives being ruined, pesions gone, jobs gone. I'm not convinced that unregulated competition will ever work in this indusrty. It sure isn't now.
 
Let the market work.

There will be no call for re-regulation of any industry as long as the majority of Americans benefit from de-regulation. Fares have never been cheaper. More people are flying than ever before. If airlines fail others will fill the void -- especially with the new bankruptcy laws about to take effect.

The system is working.
 
Meet the reserve

GogglesPisano said:
Fares have never been cheaper.

To the detriment of every airline employee and their family.

GogglesPisano said:
More people are flying than ever before.

To the detriment of every airline employee that once got respect from people that viewed them as more than bus drivers and soda waitresses.

I think that full regulation will not and should not be implemented. But, there has got to be something that prohibits anyone from flying coast to coast for peanuts. In Ebay-speak, the airline industry needs to meet the reserve when it comes to ticket prices.

MM
 
Doesn't the government have a say in who gets what gates...and doesn't the govt have a say in what carriers get the new routes to Asia......and doesn't the BK judge have a say in regards to the new pay scales, etc at BK carriers? I consider that partially regulated.
 
Says who? I second what the other guy said. For the consumer, deregulation is nothing but upside---fares are cheap, and seats are available.

Why should this industry (or any other) be organized for the benefit of the employees that work in it?


Mesabi Miner said:
To the detriment of every airline employee and their family.



To the detriment of every airline employee that once got respect from people that viewed them as more than bus drivers and soda waitresses.

I think that full regulation will not and should not be implemented. But, there has got to be something that prohibits anyone from flying coast to coast for peanuts. In Ebay-speak, the airline industry needs to meet the reserve when it comes to ticket prices.

MM
 
vc10 said:
Says who? I second what the other guy said. For the consumer, deregulation is nothing but upside---fares are cheap, and seats are available.

Why should this industry (or any other) be organized for the benefit of the employees that work in it?

It's not just the employees. If the industry is allowed to continue doing what it is doing, ie selling products below the cost of producing those products, eventually, the taxpayers, shareholders and creditors will be affected. Eventually, safety will be affected, too, as the wages fall, turnover increases, and pilots and mechanics turn to other industries that pay more.

The flying part of this job is great, but this profession has a very real cost in terms of time away from family, and an opportunity cost in investing years with a carrier, only to start over at the bottom, through no fault of your own.

Like many other pilots, I have been developing other income streams on the side. If this job gets to the point where it is no longer worth doing, hopefully, I will be able to walk away while "the going is still good" instead of sitting in the cockpit b!tching about how it used to be . . . . .
 
Amen, Ty. I just happen to think that a little strategically placed regulation in terms of a "minimum fare" would go a long way toward solving some of the airline's problems. God bless capitalism, but come on now.

MM
 
Mesabi Miner said:
Amen, Ty. I just happen to think that a little strategically placed regulation in terms of a "minimum fare" would go a long way toward solving some of the airline's problems. God bless capitalism, but come on now.

MM


We don't need regulation we need capitalism. Look at the last downturn in '89. The industry had the same fundamental problem of overcapacity (and the current mess is a supply-demand problem at it's root as well) and Eastern, PanAm and Midway went under helping pricing to return to sustainable levels. Now look at this downturn. It's far worse than the downturn of '89 and it's been going on for years and just keeps getting worse. The difference is that NO legacy carriers have ceased operation; how can this be? The bankruptcy courts and lenders are keeping airlines flying that have no economic reason for still being alive. It's destroying the whole industry.

I agree with you, people shouldn't be flying across the USA for $99. It costs lots of money to operate airplanes and almost everyone is selling seats at a loss. If the failed carriers were purged from the industry the supply of seats would be lowered to a level where the remaining carriers could finally price for break-even+ and the "junk" passengers that have created artificial demand due to insane pricing would need to go back their Greyhound busses.

Regulation is not the answer. Deregulation is the American way. If we could just get the lenders and the bankruptcy courts to let the strong survive and the weak perish the industry could fix itself. Quasi-regulation by the lenders and courts is getting in the way of the corporate darwinism that is the foundation of capitalism.
 
GogglesPisano said:
The system is working.
Oh yeah, it's working great.

The PBGC is about to be declared insolvent once both DAL and NWA dump their pensions onto the PBGC as well, tens of thousands of employees are without jobs, retirement benefits, or medical coverage well before Social Security and Medicare cut in, and what was that about capitalism at its finest? Only the fittest survive?

Well, thanks to the bankruptcy courts, the fittest are simply the last ones to file bankruptcy and EVERYONE survives.

That's not exactly what I'd call a "working system".

The only regulation I'm advocating is one simple law that REQUIRES an airline to price their product at least EQUAL to the cost of producing it. If an airplane has 100 seats and it costs $15,000 to do a 2 hour flight from DTW to BOS (including the G&A costs), then by God those seats should NEVER be allowed to sell for less than $150. If that puts some airlines out of business because of competition, well too d*mn bad; THAT would be a working capitalistic system.

Ty, I agree, but I ALREADY bitch in the cockpit about "the good ole' days",,, ;)

Oh, incidentally, the airline workers aren't the ONLY people who would benefit from this. How about the millions of taxpayers who are going to share in paying for the bailout of the PBGC? Chew on that one a while...
 

Latest resources

Back
Top