Re-regulation

[AAflyer]

I think that you guys are wasting too much energy on what used to be. No one has said they way things used to be was correct. Was the profession looked on differently, yes and that is not coming back. For many of those years, flying was considered some kind of adventure into the unknown. Regulation and unionism allowed the wages to grow and fuel the desire for the job. In the end of regulation, some thought that things were really out of hand.

With deregulation, the ability of a carrier to withstand a strike went to zero and many of them caved in to demands that really were not in line with what was happening in the business. This is still a business you know. In regulation, there was not all this comptetition waiting in the wings to take your marketshare.

This society will not stand for re-regulation nor will the job ever be looked at like some exotic dangerous profession. Flying has become safer, the world better educated, in some ways the job easier, and we will not be going back in our lifetimes. for the most part, it will be paid in line with a decent mid level management job.

Society may not stand for it, but if there comes a day when the pilots of SWA, JB, AirTran along with the pilots of the "legacies" take more and more paycuts to "subsidize" the flying publics' demand for cheap tickets the airlines employees may demand it.

With the ability to park every jet in this country they will have the power to get it. As we continue to spiral downwards there seems to be realization that we are "all" in this together, and when that comes together the "pilots of this country" will have a very strong voice.

AA

 

[SWA GUY]

See guys the problem with this industry is all SWA/JB/Aitran's fault.

AAflyer you slay me!

Sorry we are messing up the industry. <<<Yawn>>>

 

[Publishers]

The thing that keeps the airlines going under BK is cash flow, hidden reserves, and revenue. These are the things that have to be there for a BK filing to work. If they do not exist, then you switch to chapter 7 and adios.

If you have a revenue stream, and, you have items in hidden reserve (good value at low book value), then cash is produced and you can pay your current operatiing expenses hence staying in business.

This description applies to most airlines. Many bankruptcies do not have these things going for them. Think about it. If you can be absolved of your long term debt and only have to worry about current expenses, can you produce positive cash flow. If you lose your job, that may not be possible.

The law is in place so that companies and individuals can have a second chance if things get out of control. Still, the basics have to be there. If you have 0 assets to pledge as collateral, 0 assets with value in them, and revenue is sinking faster than the Titantic, you cannot go on.

 

[Lear70]

Reregulation will cause the loss of many pilot jobs. We will go back to a time when in history where it was very hard to get a flying job. And yes, the few pilots who still have jobs will be paid very well.


You willing to lose your job to improve someone else's?

Yup. Read the last line of my last post.

Family business building houses and commercial real estate pays better and I'm home at night. I can do that until I can find another flying job - life goes on.

 

[Speed Turd]

I posted this earlier in general, but since it really applies to you guys. What do you think about Re-Regulating the airlines? Partial re-regualtion?. I don't think this industry can stay in this current cycle much longer. Legacies aren't allowed to fail, lives being ruined, pesions gone, jobs gone. I'm not convinced that unregulated competition will ever work in this indusrty. It sure isn't now.

Pinko commie!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Society may not stand for it, but if there comes a day when the pilots of SWA, JB, AirTran along with the pilots of the "legacies" take more and more paycuts to "subsidize" the flying publics' demand for cheap tickets the airlines employees may demand it.

With the ability to park every jet in this country they will have the power to get it. As we continue to spiral downwards there seems to be realization that we are "all" in this together, and when that comes together the "pilots of this country" will have a very strong voice.

AA

The scene in Apollo 13 where the NASA engineers were debating what needed to be done. Finally, the one engineer said 'guys it is all about power' (electrical).

For us, it is all about politics. From the discussion on this thread, what is left after all is fixed is pilots still have to negotiate thier wages, work rules etc. from thier companies..

We don't negotiate Age 60. It is Fed law. Same with flight and duty times. and so on...

Our effectiveness to change and protect the Air Line Pilot Profession is not [entirely] with the amount of revenue we can get out of our companies.

It also rests with the lobbying of our Fed Representatives. Passing legislation that provides stops to the race to the bottom. Placing protections that allow us to focus on safety.

 

[AAflyer]

See guys the problem with this industry is all SWA/JB/Aitran's fault.

AAflyer you slay me!

Sorry we are messing up the industry. <<<Yawn>>>

Where did I say that? May I suggest you re-read the post as you are miles from the target.

AA

If you are still not bright enough to figure it, I am not blaming the pilots of the LCCs at all.

 

[Publishers]

I do think that re regulation would lead ultimately to fewer jobs but not necessarily well paid jobs,,, at least at the level you think existed before.

Regulation is and becomes all about the politic. Flexibility becomes less so you are locked into your route structure. There is no panacea here for your woes. Lousy companies run without skill still crash and burn

 

[GogglesPisano]

I posted this earlier in general, but since it really applies to you guys. What do you think about Re-Regulating the airlines? Partial re-regualtion?. I don't think this industry can stay in this current cycle much longer. Legacies aren't allowed to fail, lives being ruined, pesions gone, jobs gone. I'm not convinced that unregulated competition will ever work in this indusrty. It sure isn't now.

Some would argue the industry is still being regulated in the form of federal bankruptcy courts.

In any event, the free market system is working. It is devastating for the piloting profession and for airline labor in general. And a lot of the great names have already disappeared -- but some of you fail to realize that the public has benefited from increased competition. Fares have never been lower and the skies have never been safer.

To think that the public will stand for re-regulation and the higher fares it entails simply to help a rather small segment of society (airline labor) is mental masturbation. It may make you feel better, but that's about it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

To think that the public will stand for re-regulation and the higher fares it entails simply to help a rather small segment of society (airline labor) is mental masturbation. It may make you feel better, but that's about it.

That is the point. While one could argue this on a general level...

Does the United States want the Air Line Pilot Profession to be...bottomed out?

1. Do the pilots themsleves want it?

2. Can US National Security afford to have it?

3. While pax want the cheapest tickets, do they really want bottom feeders flying the airplanes.


What can be done about it?

How about an artilce to read in 15 years that says "How the Air Line Pilots saved the airline industry"

We need to quit thinking about just next year. Plan ahead.....