Ramp check do's And don'ts

[Rick1128]

TXCAP,

Part 91 flights don't get ramped very much at all. Due to Part 119, all commercial operators have to have their company name or certificate number posted prominately near the entry door. This in my opinion has reduced the number of Part 91 ramp checks. And depending on the aircraft type. About the only way a Part 91 bug smasher will get ramped is the Inspector is there anyway and isn't busy. Or something attracted his attention.

The only time I have ever been ramped on a real Part 91 flight, the inspector asked to see my certificates, registration and airworthiness certificates. Walked around the aircraft and waved goodbye. As for what is off limits, not a whole lot. They can't open up suitcases or the like. They could have you weight your baggage, but not likely. (too much work for them). I don't carry my logbook or the aircraft logbooks with me. If they want to see them, they will have to request them in writing. Their own guidence requires them to request these materials in writing via certified mail.

The issue about the paperwork, I believe goes back many years. It was not unknown for Inspectors to keep a pilot's certificate and claim the pilot had surrendered it. The regs have changed and there are procedures to be followed before a pilot can surrender his certificates to an Inspector. The rest of the stuff by chuck is common sense. I have been told by several feds that airmen are their own worst enemies when it comes to dealing with the feds.

 

[flywithastick]

The only time I have ever been ramped on a real Part 91 flight, the inspector asked to see my certificates, registration and airworthiness certificates. Walked around the aircraft and waved goodbye. As for what is off limits, not a whole lot. They can't open up suitcases or the like. They could have you weight your baggage, but not likely. (too much work for them).

Thanks forthe info, Rick. Based on your experience, with ramp check of a pt 91 flyer, would having some "typical" w&b sheets cut it? I have several scenarios calc'd that are in my POH. Have they ever asked you for w&b info? your thoughts on this?

 

[Rick1128]

Only Part 135 multi engine aircraft are required to have w&b forms. For Part 91, about all you are required to do is to be in W&B limits. They only ask me to W&B info on 135 flights. But I would be reasonable about it. And I believe they would also. If they see three average people get out of a 172. No problem. They see you and three sumo wreslers get out, then you might have a problem.

 

[TXCAP4228]

Thanks!

Rick 1128 and others, thanks for the info. I learn more from reading through these threads for an hour than I do in an average couple of months of flying.

This is just one of the issues I have always wanted to ask a FSDO or a DE about but never had the nerve. Thanks again.

 

[Aviator]

Thanks everyone. This has been a very informative thread. I was also wondering if a NASA form could be used if necessary.

 

[Chunk]

chperplt,


By paperwork, I meant personal....certificates and medicals...

These aren't my tips, they are from a textbook written by an av. lawyer.

Chunk

 

[bobbysamd]

Ramp checks

The feds may make you feel as if you're a criminal when they approach (or should I say, accost) you and announce that they're hear to help. However, it's not a criminal proceding and you cannot invoke any Constitutional rights.

However, you have the right not to volunteer information. In other words, just answer their questions. If they ask to see your logbook and you happen to have it with you, you do not have to surrender it on the spot for their inspection. The FARs say the feds have the right to view your logbook on reasonable notice - meaning that you should make an appointment with the fed in his/her office and bring your aviation attorney with you.

Also, be careful if they ask you to surrender your certificates. My understanding is that surrendering your certificates to a fed is tantamount to surrendering your privilege to fly. Of course, the FARs set forth the formal procedures for surrendering your privilege to fly.

Avweb has an excellent three-part series on FAA enforcement actions . I always recommend this book, Practical Aviation Law by J. Scott Hamilton
ISBN: 0813818087, available at www.bn.com and elsewhere.

Hope that helps some more.

 

[jetdriven]

I have handed over my medical and license several times during a pt 121 and 135 ramp check. You are not surrendering it by doing so.

never admit to previously flying the aircraft.

never admit to anything.

before he leaves ask him pointblank 'are there any violations?" If he says no then you later take off he has no violatioon against you. he cannot mislead you.

every word you say can be used against you in a violation hearing. keep it shut!

do cooperate, if you are acting like a jerk and piss him off you will have problems.


to end the ramp check early, tell him you have to leave NOW, as you have a clearance void time (uncontrolled fileds only) and he cannot delay you.

 

[dav8or]

I keep an old medical in my wallet. The older the better. When they see it, they think now i've got him. Then I produce the current one and tell him that one must have been left in there by mistake. Works great to defuse the whole ordeal.

 

[ShawnC]

Dos:
Be Nice
Hand over the certificates
Hide the logbook

Don'ts:
Yell "Quick Bob hide the weed"
Be an ASS
Run
Try to hide an obvious violation

 

[flywithastick]

Yell "Quick Bob hide the weed"

don't tell me... the FAA has drug enforcement authority too?! wouldn't suprise me. I saw where IRS and department of education authorities are even carrying sidearms these days.

 

[ShawnC]

Just because they can't charge you doesn't mean that they can't detain you. Heck after all there still is citizen arrest, tough many hesitiate to use it because of all the darn lawsuits.

 

[Timebuilder]

never admit to previously flying the aircraft.

never admit to anything.

before he leaves ask him pointblank 'are there any violations?" If he says no then you later take off he has no violatioon against you. he cannot mislead you.

every word you say can be used against you in a violation hearing. keep it shut!

do cooperate, if you are acting like a jerk and piss him off you will have problems.


to end the ramp check early, tell him you have to leave NOW, as you have a clearance void time (uncontrolled fileds only) and he cannot delay you.

Someone straighten me out here. How are you supposed to answer his questions?

You're standing next to an aircraft on the ramp. He watched you taxi in. How are you supposed to 'never admit that you have previously flown the aircraft'?

How do you answer the questions without admitting to anything?

Suppose you tell him you have to leave due to a clearance void time. He whips out his icom radio and monitors the airport frequencies. As you depart, he discovers that there was no clearance void time which was about to expire. Does the inspector cite you for making a false statement in the course of a regulatory investigation?

Bobby, you're in law, what do you think?

 

[Chunk]

Void time

It doesn't have to be a void time....just say you are scheduled to leave in 5 minutes....The schedule doesn't have to be written down...just what was planned by the PIC.