RAH NMB Ruling

[Jar Jar]

Seriously why was this moved here? This has more implications about the Branded/F9 side of things. The regional/fixed fee part of RAH is pretty much spoken for and basically uneffected with this outcome.

Like it or not your amalgamation of an airline is defined by the pukes who compose the majority of your population. I suggest you get out first before they do.

 

[LearLove]

Sweet....suck it F9

WOW with that whole 2000 hours and what maybe 1.5 years as a prof. pilot your going to take command over at F9 and show them who is boss.

Come back and talk to us when you can actually fly a leg without being a burden to your CA.

So cool listing E170 SIC. Yeah keep thinking it's a real type and we will keep laughing. Have you ever even been PIC on anything other than a cessna/piper you rented? Have any 135 or 121 PIC? Go back to watching romper room kid.

 

[Fubijaakr]

So frontier's a regional? Nice slam!

It is now...

Like it or not your amalgamation of an airline is defined by the pukes who compose the majority of your population.

...and this is why.

 

[On Your Six]

Does single carrier equal single operating certificate? Maybe someone should challenge that and see if it goes against the DL contract for planes over 76 seats. If needed, I'll happily pay extra money to look into that via the Courts or an arbitrator.


OYS

 

[UnstableAviator]

Does single carrier equal single operating certificate? Maybe someone should challenge that and see if it goes against the DL contract for planes over 76 seats. If needed, I'll happily pay extra money to look into that via the Courts or an arbitrator.


OYS

DL management doesn't seem to upset with RAH, otherwise they wouldn't have recently amended the S5 contract to add 8 E170's this fall. Airframes coming from the current branded operation in an effort to increase seat density.

Also, RW, CHQ, and S5 have been a single carrier now for years. RW operates 86 and 99 seat aircraft.....so nothing has changed in regards to the "76+ seat" situation.

 

[chqflyer]

According to our SLI Q & A it should be in effect within 60 days of Single carrier (today)

60 days from the day of single representation according to the company memo put out today.

 

[On Your Six]

DL management doesn't seem to upset with RAH, otherwise they wouldn't have recently amended the S5 contract to add 8 E170's this fall. Airframes coming from the current branded operation in an effort to increase seat density.

Also, RW, CHQ, and S5 have been a single carrier now for years. RW operates 86 and 99 seat aircraft.....so nothing has changed in regards to the "76+ seat" situation.

It doesn't matter what DL management thinks about Republic, rather what the pilot contract states about allowing feed airlines to have planes with more than 76 seats. I bet management would like DALPA to look the other way, which I hope they do not. It is being looked into I bet. The definition of "single carrier" is important, and an arbitrator should look into it for us. Our contract is pretty specific. We shouldn't be subsidizing Frontier and all of the other
Republic carriers. And, let's see what this recent ruling does to the "status" of Republic, Shuttlecraft, Frontier, etc. If the meaning has changed, maybe our contract can go to work for us. It is worth it.


OYS

 

[BoilerUP]

It doesn't matter what DL management thinks about Republic, rather what the pilot contract states about allowing feed airlines to have planes with more than 76 seats. I bet management would like DALPA to look the other way, which I hope they do not. It is being looked into I bet. The definition of "single carrier" is important, and an arbitrator should look into it for us. Our contract is pretty specific. We shouldn't be subsidizing Frontier and all of the other Republic carriers.


OYS

That's the thing though - no RAH airline that has feed for Delta has planes with more than 76 seats.

And Republic Airlines E190s with 99 seats have been flying for months already, if not years - where was the grievance then?

Still not sure why a Single Transportation System ruling (which deals with employee representation, not operations) bolsters your position...

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Still not sure why a Single Transportation System ruling (which deals with employee representation, not operations) bolsters your position...

It doesn't. But OYS is one of those Delta pilots who make us all look bad because he thinks the whole world revolves around him and that no plane takes off or lands without DALPA's consent. Ignore the ignorant fool.

 

[dojetdriver]

They might regret this! Delta's scope doesnt allow for anyone to fly for them if they operate a/c larger than 76 seats. Thats why ACA got the boot. They have been playing the separate certificate/ separate company card and now that argument doesnt hold much water when deemed a single carrier.

Partially true. But that relationship termination at the time was pretty much a mutual decision. The DelCon ops were break even at best. But the correct part is that as soon as the first Airbus flew for I-Air, it was a scope violation with DAL. However, it was allowed to continue till the removal of the ACA DelCon ops in November 2004.

ACA was one certificate, Republic is 4 seperate certificates, so Delta scope does not apply

True, reference the above. But when the DelCon side of ACA started, it was two different certificates. ACA and ACJet. The ACJet cert was actually a work around for the UAL scope.

 

[Indy319FA]

Dojetdriver is correct in his post above, however I would add that ACA/Indy looked at putting the 319s on a seperate certificate to keep the DL contracts, but decided it was not worth the cost, mainly for the reasons dojetdriver has stated above, and the cost of running two seperate operations. The placing of the Airbus on the Fly I certificate was a convenient excuse for Fly I to get rid of the Dojets and put them on Delta. Company execs were manic about completion rates in the Summer of 04 so Delta could not cancel the contract in a manner that woud leave ACA/Indy stuck with the airplanes. The DL operation ended when the first Airbus went into revenue in November 04.

Bedford has been smart enough to keep all of his large aircraft on certficates that will allow them. Everyone there has been on one list for a while, with the exception of F9, and those employees have been operating aircraft that would violate Delta scope on the Republic certificate. While this ruling could have a significant effect on the entire Republic Holdings operation, it will not affect the Delta operation because the aircraft on the CHQ and Shuttle certificates do not violate Delta scope.

 

[dojetdriver]

Dojetdriver is correct in his post above, however I would add that ACA/Indy looked at putting the 319s on a seperate certificate to keep the DL contracts, but decided it was not worth the cost, mainly for the reasons dojetdriver has stated above, and the cost of running two seperate operations.

The weird thing about that whole thing was that Delta ended up buying the ACJet certificate and letting it die.

The placing of the Airbus on the Fly I certificate was a convenient excuse for Fly I to get rid of the Dojets and put them on Delta. Company execs were manic about completion rates in the Summer of 04 so Delta could not cancel the contract in a manner that woud leave ACA/Indy stuck with the airplanes.

Actually, per the agreement, DAL did cancel the contract. And that meant that per the agreement between ACA and DAL, it left DAL holding the bag on the 328 leases. So they cancel, AND pay the leases on the planes. Even weirder? When MESA/J.O got the freedumb deal out of ATL to fly DelCon, he agreed to take over the lease payments on the planes that we all repo'd down to MYR while they sat decaying.

The DL operation ended when the first Airbus went into revenue in November 04

True, that was when the program was getting the boot. But the first Airbus flew in April, I believe DAL worked out a deal with their pilots to let the ACA 328's fly till November.

 

[On Your Six]

Dojetdriver is correct in his post above, however I would add that ACA/Indy looked at putting the 319s on a seperate certificate to keep the DL contracts, but decided it was not worth the cost, mainly for the reasons dojetdriver has stated above, and the cost of running two seperate operations. The placing of the Airbus on the Fly I certificate was a convenient excuse for Fly I to get rid of the Dojets and put them on Delta. Company execs were manic about completion rates in the Summer of 04 so Delta could not cancel the contract in a manner that woud leave ACA/Indy stuck with the airplanes. The DL operation ended when the first Airbus went into revenue in November 04.

Bedford has been smart enough to keep all of his large aircraft on certficates that will allow them. Everyone there has been on one list for a while, with the exception of F9, and those employees have been operating aircraft that would violate Delta scope on the Republic certificate. While this ruling could have a significant effect on the entire Republic Holdings operation, it will not affect the Delta operation because the aircraft on the CHQ and Shuttle certificates do not violate Delta scope.

We'll see about that. Regardless, RJs are a money drain these days, especially with over $100 a barrel oil. More has to be done to cut those losses.


OYS

 

[Indy319FA]

Actually, per the agreement, DAL did cancel the contract. And that meant that per the agreement between ACA and DAL, it left DAL holding the bag on the 328 leases. So they cancel, AND pay the leases on the planes. Even weirder? When MESA/J.O got the freedumb deal out of ATL to fly DelCon, he agreed to take over the lease payments that we all repo'd down to MYR while they say decaying.

Agree that DL canceled the contract, but if ACA had let its completion factor fall too low (the figure I remember was 96%) then DL could have canceled the contract for performance, not due to scope issues, which would not have allowed ACA/Indy to put the aircraft on DL. I just remember it was crazy that summer because of the engine issues and management pushing to get flights completed even though we had 2 or 3 gliders in Columbia all summer with no engines.

So they cancel, AND pay the leases on the planes. Even weirder? When MESA/J.O got the freedumb deal out of ATL to fly DelCon, he agreed to take over the lease payments that we all repo'd down to MYR while they say decaying.

Supposedly they were looking at Skyway and Comair to operate the aircraft when Mesa came along and offered to take over the Dojet flying and pay DL for the leases on the Dojets. The rumor was JO was willing to lose money initially to get his nose into the Delta tent. Then DL dumps the leases in bankruptcy and JO is off the hook. Not saying all that is true, but its what I heard from multiple sources.

I've been in and out of MYR several times, and the sight of those Dojets suffering a slow death is pretty sad. The Dojet operation in Cincy was the most fun I've had in this business, it was a bunch of great people with a fun airplane and I think about it every time I go thru CVG.

 

[dojetdriver]

We'll see about that. Regardless, RJs are a money drain these days, especially with over $100 a barrel oil. More has to be done to cut those losses.


OYS

They were also a money drain EVERY other time fuel prices went up. Wasn't till recently that the legacy's management figured that out. But there's also other collateral effects that cause them to be expensive besides fuel. Overall higher operation costs compared to the 90's for one, the massive redundancy they created that NWA/DAL figured out weren't needed for 2.

As far as more having to be done to cut losses, pilot contracts have proven to be on that list as well.