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QX upgrade out of seniority

MALSR

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Great to know that management has decided to upgraded an assistant chief pilot (currently an fo) out of seniority. Although upgrading management pilots out of seniority is nothing new at Horizon, this becomes even more unsettling given the fact that it is occurring at a time of furloughs, captain downgrades, and cost reductions. I hope for the sake of integrity, that this person chooses to sit right seat instead of left.
 

Tarzan

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I dunno. I think the seniority system certainly has it's bug. There should also be some sort of merit based system to go with it. I know of more than a couple of CA's that have no business being in the left seat. Just because you pass a type ride and have the right number doesn't mean that you should own your position.

Sounds like this guy has worked a little extra and received some compensation for it. I wish more airlines would do that but the unions would never allow for anything that could be construed as "unequal" or has merit involved.
 

SkyBoy1981

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I dunno. I think the seniority system certainly has it's bug. There should also be some sort of merit based system to go with it. I know of more than a couple of CA's that have no business being in the left seat. Just because you pass a type ride and have the right number doesn't mean that you should own your position.

Sounds like this guy has worked a little extra and received some compensation for it. I wish more airlines would do that but the unions would never allow for anything that could be construed as "unequal" or has merit involved.

I agree with your intent, but a system that awards things based on merit is certain to become a system that awards things based on chronyism and ass kissing. I work hard, I do my job right.. but I'm not interested in playing golf with my Chief Pilot on the weekend to win an upgrade slot. It just doesn't work.
 
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rickair7777

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I agree with your intent, but a system that awards things based on merit is certain to become a system that awards things based on chronyism and ass kissing. I work hard, I do my job right.. but I'm not interested in playing golf with my Chief Pilot on the weekend to win an upgrade slot. It just doesn't work.

What he said.
 

ReverseSensing

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Sounds like this guy has worked a little extra and received some compensation for it.

Nope. Just your standard brown-nosing line-cutter that does quite well in management at QX.
 

bri5150

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I agree with your intent, but a system that awards things based on merit is certain to become a system that awards things based on chronyism and ass kissing. I work hard, I do my job right.. but I'm not interested in playing golf with my Chief Pilot on the weekend to win an upgrade slot. It just doesn't work.

People in the "real world" get compensated and promotions based on their performance and merit. It isn't all ass kissing and chronyism. I think the biggest problem with choosing upgrades based on a system like that is the fact that we work on our own 99% of the time, and if there isn't an incident, your performance will never even been noticed by anyone other than the other pilot.
 

Tarzan

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Nope. Just your standard brown-nosing line-cutter that does quite well in management at QX.

I guess that makes me a brown noser too. I look to be involved with different aspects in the company. It won't do me a bit of good at my company but it may help diversify my resume if suddenly I find myself unable to fly.

The anti-achievement mentality lives on today.
 

Flybywire44

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Great to know that management has decided to upgraded an assistant chief pilot (currently an fo) out of seniority. Although upgrading management pilots out of seniority is nothing new at Horizon, this becomes even more unsettling given the fact that it is occurring at a time of furloughs, captain downgrades, and cost reductions. I hope for the sake of integrity, that this person chooses to sit right seat instead of left.

He's a cheif pilot. He's employed outside of the contract. Yeah life sucks for everyone right now, but your choosing to focus on something superfluous.
 

ReverseSensing

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I guess that makes me a brown noser too. I look to be involved with different aspects in the company. It won't do me a bit of good at my company but it may help diversify my resume if suddenly I find myself unable to fly.

The anti-achievement mentality lives on today.

I don't follow: In order to be involved with "different aspects" of your company, you are required to kiss-ass and accept benefits not available to a regular line pilot of your seniority?

I get to be involved with "different aspects" than a regular line pilot (as a union volunteer) and I don't have to kiss anyone's ass to do so.

ACPs at QX are hired for one reason: they can be relied upon to say "yes" to their bosses and "no" to their subordinates. Merit (as in, years of exemplary service and perhaps even some experience as a line captain) doesn't really enter into the equation.

I'm not anti-acheivement at all -- I, and most of my fellow line pilots work hard to achieve a very worthwhile goal: delivering passengers safely to their destinations. Any other considerations one has in mind while working as a professional pilot are, in my view, strictly extracurricular, and that includes buffing one's resume by taking an ACP job.
 

ReverseSensing

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He's a cheif pilot. He's employed outside of the contract. Yeah life sucks for everyone right now, but your choosing to focus on something superfluous.

Eroding pilot morale for essentially no purpose is not superfluous. In fact, it's asinine. But that never stopped management at QX.

They're picking a fight they don't need to pick.
 

M-crit

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He's a cheif pilot. He's employed outside of the contract. Yeah life sucks for everyone right now, but your choosing to focus on something superfluous.

I don't think its that at all. The problem is that Horizon hires FOs for management positions because they know an FO will be a yes-man for them. If not its no upgrade for you. This way, management has someone in their pocket, and not on the side of the pilots. They dangle the carrot. If this was not true they would never hire an FO, they would hire a captain for the job like most companys.
 

Cardinal

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I was aghast when I discovered the QX ACP I was talking to was also a QX FO. WTF. I have a hard time respecting certain managers anyway, to be lectured by an FO would absolutely take the cake. My sympathies to you all.
 

Hamburger

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If this was not true they would never hire an FO, they would hire a captain for the job like most companys.

Was there a Captain that wanted the job?

to be lectured by an FO would absolutely take the cake.

Exactly why they Upgrade the guy. To give a false air of legitimacy to his 'authority.'
 
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Hamburger

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Maybe it's the first time you've seen it, but I can assure you this happens everywhere and has for a long time.
Usually it's because there is not a Captain deranged enough to want the job and the Ops Specs require whomever holds the position to have a Type.
It does suck, but for what it's worth, it's a miserable job and he's going to be hating life. There's a reason they have to dip so low to fill it.
 

Tarzan

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I don't follow: In order to be involved with "different aspects" of your company, you are required to kiss-ass and accept benefits not available to a regular line pilot of your seniority?


I'm not anti-acheivement at all -- I, and most of my fellow line pilots work hard to achieve a very worthwhile goal: delivering passengers safely to their destinations. Any other considerations one has in mind while working as a professional pilot are, in my view, strictly extracurricular, and that includes buffing one's resume by taking an ACP job.

This what I am talking about. Just because someone has colored outside of the lines to further where he/she is in their career, generally the rank and file look to tar and feather that person. They are called brown noser and yes-men. In some cases they are, in other cases no. However, when you work for the company and not the contract, you are duty bound to operate in the companies best interest. I can enough arguments about company interest to demonstrate that a happy work group equates to a better product produced. There are still times to say no though.

Most of us have worked hard to get where we are. I've got a wife, kids and mortgage and worked my tail to get where I am now. I still have further to go but I will keep doing it. But once again, whenever someone steps out of line to achieve what is best for themselves and family, they get the back of the hand. It has become the seniority mentality of believing, "Only when it is your turn." Merit completely falls by the way side with that thought structure.

I'll catch a bunch of flack for this but it really doesn't matter. When it comes to bettering my position in life, I have no compunction at all about stepping out of line. If I can get a better job within the company when I beat of a more senior guy, I am all for it. You, the furloughed FO, the super senior captain or anyone else pays my bills or feeds my kids. It is MY responsibility so I if step on someones elses toes in the effort, I'll apologize and mean it but in the end, its to damn bad. I'll help out just about anyone but in the end it comes down to me and and how well I provide for my family.
 

Sioux115

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I know for sure this has been grieved by the teamsters, especially when GH upgraded. I also heard the union has agreed to let this to continue since QX has been upgrading ACP's since the beginning of time.

On a side note: WHY DOES A COMPANY OF 650'ish PILOTS AND DECLINING HAVE 5 ASSISTANT CHIEF PILOTS!!!
 

turbodriver

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Great to know that management has decided to upgraded an assistant chief pilot (currently an fo) out of seniority. Although upgrading management pilots out of seniority is nothing new at Horizon, this becomes even more unsettling given the fact that it is occurring at a time of furloughs, captain downgrades, and cost reductions. I hope for the sake of integrity, that this person chooses to sit right seat instead of left.

So they finally upgraded Lacy huh? I always knew that she'd kiss enough a$$......
 
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