Questions for WN pilots

[accinelli]

Are your TFPs calculated from wheels up to wheels down?
How are the block overrides calculated?
Also -- always been curious -- why the super fast taxi's? Is there a metric this helps achieve. Have heard something about it being in the contract -- any truth to this?

 

[scoreboard]

Are your TFPs calculated from wheels up to wheels down?
How are the block overrides calculated?
Also -- always been curious -- why the super fast taxi's? Is there a metric this helps achieve. Have heard something about it being in the contract -- any truth to this?

TFP is based on miles, I think 1 TFP equals distance between DAL-HOU, which then is translated to time. Time starts at pushback, stops at setting brakes at jetway. Overide does not start until we are 12 minutes over scheduled flight time, so if we push on time but get in 10 late, nothing extra, 13 late we get 1/10hr overfly.

We don't taxi fast, at least not above FAA/airfield and Boeing limits, why do so many crawl at 5 knots, they doing brain surgery on a pax or something?

Bottom line, we don't get paid to overfly unless we are really late, which has a low probability because our block is set based on time of day and destination, it varies immensly through the day and day to day. We therefore have no incentive to clog the taxiway, and every incentive to get to the gate, offload folks, get some grub, repeat.

 

[bluestreaking]

I think one trip equals about 50 minutes.

 

[ArmyC12]

If you look in the contract, 1 TFP ='s 243 miles

 

[Mach 80]

I have to agree with one mention above. It isn't that some SWA flights taxi 'fast' but that the taxi speed of some airliners is absurdly and unnecessarily slow, as if an egg is balancing on top of the rudder or something. Nothing wrong or unsafe with 20 to 30 knots on a long straight taxi-way.

 

[Alcatraz]

Other, more senior SWA guys are free to correct me if I'm wrong, but TFPs are NOT converted to hours until the actual pay stub, where they don't have a column for "Trips For Pay" and just label them "Hours" for simplicity (I'm disregarding charter pay in this discussion).

Since pay is based on mileage (slightly different than "by the mile" though), being early all the time won't result in a pay cut like traditional contracts where you may need to "preserve the block" by going slow (been there, done that!). In fact, if you can do the same route in less block, you actually make more TFPs per hour. Also, with early block you may become legal to pick up additional flying you weren't previously legal for due to a 30-in-7 issue.

Some airplanes (and companies) I've worked on (or for) want to preserve expensive brake pads, but I guess SWA has decided it's more cost effective to get better aircraft utilization. And, we actually have a published speed limit during taxi for performance (brake cooling) reasons.

 

[PTinbound]

We just keep track of flight hours for FARs and TAFB hours for per diem. All flight pay is per TFP's. It was hard to get used to at first, but TFP's and hours are kind of like knots and miles per hour. When we first started flying it was a little hard to get used to, but now we just live in the "knot" world without thinking about it. TFP's are just like that. Keep track of hours for FARs, and TFP's for your salary.

 

[slaquer5]

Other, more senior SWA guys are free to correct me if I'm wrong, but TFPs are NOT converted to hours until the actual pay stub, where they don't have a column for "Trips For Pay" and just label them "Hours" for simplicity (I'm disregarding charter pay in this discussion).


Some airplanes (and companies) I've worked on (or for) want to preserve expensive brake pads, but I guess SWA has decided it's more cost effective to get better aircraft utilization. And, we actually have a published speed limit during taxi for performance (brake cooling) reasons.

Yes you are wrong. Also please tell me how taxing as you call fast for 2 miles (ie SEA) wears out the brakes ?

PS SWA has published speeds also.

 

[Caveman]

Sounds like reinventing the wheel. What's wrong with block or better? Usually there's a reason for doing something different. I know there is a historical aspect to the TFP but I guess I'm missing where the advantage is for doing it that way now. It's your airline. Do what you want, but it seems convoluted to me.

 

[mynameisjim]

Whats wrong with block or better? I'm not a southwest guy, in fact I don't really like southwest. But I am tired of captains who want to make a few dollars at the expense of the company using block or better.

The motivation of the employee should always match the company. Example, a salesman who gets commission based on a % of profit.

An airline pilot should be financially motivated to arrive on time.

 

[ivauir]

Sounds like reinventing the wheel. What's wrong with block or better? Usually there's a reason for doing something different. I know there is a historical aspect to the TFP but I guess I'm missing where the advantage is for doing it that way now. It's your airline. Do what you want, but it seems convoluted to me.

I fail to see any advantage either, but I don't see a disadvantage either. It is just the way it is.

 

[Caveman]

Whats wrong with block or better? I'm not a southwest guy, in fact I don't really like southwest. But I am tired of captains who want to make a few dollars at the expense of the company using block or better.

The motivation of the employee should always match the company. Example, a salesman who gets commission based on a % of profit.

An airline pilot should be financially motivated to arrive on time.

I can count on one hand the number of Captains I've flown with that intentionally milk block times by taxiing slow or slowing to .70. The overwhelming majority of pilots just do their job and the block times are incidental. That doesn't mean I'm unhappy when I have long taxi times at JFK or LGA. Money is money, but very, very few intentionally work the system just to make a couple of bucks. Usually the down side of pax inconvenience motivates most of us to do the right thing. There are exceptions I'm sure, but most guys/gals I know don't operate like that.

I agree that what's good for the company should also be good for the employee and vice versa. That can be a double edged sword though. What if safety could be compromised by the policy. For example, on time arrival bonuses. Any chance that might influence a crew's decison making? For most people it wouldn't, but for some it might intentionally or unintentionally creep into their consciousness.

 

[TurboAWD]

I can count on one hand the number of Captains I've flown with that intentionally milk block times by taxiing slow or slowing to .70.

Well, obviously you are not a NWA in the post crap-contract era.
Taxi speeds in DTW have dropped dramaticly.


Turbo

 

[fngswa]

Expeditious Taxi

Pushing back and our expeditious taxi is all about maximizing aircraft in the system and giving our ground guys more time to load and unload bags. We still strive for the 25 minute turn. A number of times when we taxi in, we are pushing ahead of jets from other companies that were there when we landed. If we can push and get ahead of one jet that can save us two minutes, and if there is traffic, more. Doesn't always work, but for those times it does it saves us valuable time that adds to the bottom line. Yup, towing the company line but it works.

We do have published speeds that we follow. I'm not in charge but most of the captains stick to it.

 

[TexaSWA]

Sounds like reinventing the wheel. What's wrong with block or better? .

Who really gives a crap. I guess we could waste time in negotiations converting from TFP to hourly, and then adjusting rates to match (1TFP = 1.2+ hr) and end up with the exact same thing.

You fly the plane... they pay you. Doesnt matter how its measured.

 

[scoreboard]

Sounds like reinventing the wheel. .

Thats funny, a caveman reinventing the wheel, can you use Geico?

 

[Quimby]

hrs for pay, TFP, landings for pay.....whatever. as long as the checks clear on payday!