Questions for the UNICAL pilots.

[chppr5]

Why don't you square up on the scope issue as part of your "moving on"? Stand alone basis LCAL was not budging on scope. Where else were we going to fly 737s after LUAL infected our operation with the 70 seat airplanes? LUAL put 70 seaters in our bases, LCAL put 737s in your bases.

What you should understand from this is how important scope is. But you seem to shut down whenever it's mentioned.

The career disparity that exists at certain longevity points in our lists is there because you let your LUAL ALPA leadership sell you out on scope. You let PW sign a side letter for 70 seat airplanes. I'm glad to see that UAL pilots with 15+ years can bid captain. They're long overdue and quite frankly, we need the help! I'm utterly sick of these schedules while sUAL guys can WOP trips and fly 50 hours a month. But understand this: We can never let scope go again! AND, we can never let 570s and their ilk throw the rest of us under the bus while they try to save their own asses!!

I agree with you, scope is a huge issue which is why I voted no. The "scope choke" may choke us not management. We didn't "let" PW sign a LOA for the 70 seaters, that was unilateral. But the fact is, the 70 seater (CRJ700) was included in the BK contract 2003. The side letter only expanded the type of A/C (EMB170) with seat restriction remaining the same as the contract (under 70). I also agree on the need to work together in the future on scope, JV and feeder flying. With ONE MEC we can ALL pull on the same end of the rope rather than against each other. Lets face it, negotiations for the JCBA was not a united force against management. Imagine what we could have accomplished with 12000+ on the same page, with the same goals rather than what we ended up with, a 4 year sub-standard contract! When the med tells us that DAL scope is "industry standard" and we are being "unreasonable" for anything less it's kind of hard to say anyone stand alone or not would end up with anything more restrictive. Like it or not "pattern bargaining" is a realization that we take the good AND the bad of the previous carriers CBA. As long as DAL keeps giving it away the longer the carriers following will have to live with it or we live with an old contract in perpetuity. Hoppefully DAL will take it back in 2015. As for the 570's, don't get me started, let's just say I'm tired of being thrown under the bus by the senior pilots of UAL. Maybe as one group we can represent 12000 rather than one sub group....

 

[Plug]

Yea, because on a stand alone basis LCAL would have been opening up 737 bases in LAX, DEN, ORD and SFO. I didn't realize their growth plans were so ambitious. Your fleet count is the same as pre-merger, growth block hours came from LUAL block hours. Look at the numbers per domicile, it's black and white. But then again the talking points your MEC and MC filled your head with are now your facts. UFB! I want to move on but when I hear this revisionist history I regress!

I want to move on too, but every time I hear "we parked our guppies for the merger..." or "we didn't place an order for new aircraft because we wanted to wait and see who we merge with" I just wanna puke. It's like my 7 year old at the dinner table not eating his green beans because he already "ate them at school", then I throw back the "no desert until you eat your green beans" in which he responds "dad, I promise to eat the green beans after I eat my desert, I promise".

What you mention about fleet size is true, but what you fail to acknowledge is that the replacement aircraft fly more block hours than those replaced thus creating jobs. We had plans for LAX before the merger along with more west coast expansion most likely at the expense of a shrinking UAL. When the merger occurred those plans changed, again we'll never know. Please indulge us with what UAL had in store for the future.

 

[chppr5]

I want to move on too, but every time I hear "we parked our guppies for the merger..." or "we didn't place an order for new aircraft because we wanted to wait and see who we merge with" I just wanna puke. It's like my 7 year old at the dinner table not eating his green beans because he already "ate them at school", then I throw back the "no desert until you eat your green beans" in which he responds "dad, I promise to eat the green beans after I eat my desert, I promise".

What you mention about fleet size is true, but what you fail to acknowledge is that the replacement aircraft fly more block hours than those replaced thus creating jobs. We had plans for LAX before the merger along with more west coast expansion most likely at the expense of a shrinking UAL. When the merger occurred those plans changed, again we'll never know. Please indulge us with what UAL had in store for the future.

UAL's plan WAS consolidation! With or without CAL. After DAL/NWA we were going to merge with LCC or CAL. Let's remember who came running to who. CAL was never going to be the surviving entity in the consolidation game. The big three DAL, UAL and AMR were going to be and will be the surviving carriers. As for CALS plans in LAX, plans or rumors don't mean anything until acted upon. Just like the opening of a Florida base in the plans at UAL and CAL for the last decade. CAL and LCC had a load of narrowbody orders, we had widebody orders. Tilton was a ****************************** bag but he came here to take us thru BK and merge. Mission accomplished! I agree with you that the new A/C are utilized more but on who's routes? as of 3/2013 CAL's guppies were flying 60+% of the routed our guppies were flying. The block hours tell the whole story, we don't have to speculate, it's in black and white, ask your SSC chair for the numbers.

 

[Flopgut]

I agree with you, scope is a huge issue which is why I voted no. The "scope choke" may choke us not management. We didn't "let" PW sign a LOA for the 70 seaters, that was unilateral. But the fact is, the 70 seater (CRJ700) was included in the BK contract 2003. The side letter only expanded the type of A/C (EMB170) with seat restriction remaining the same as the contract (under 70). I also agree on the need to work together in the future on scope, JV and feeder flying. With ONE MEC we can ALL pull on the same end of the rope rather than against each other. Lets face it, negotiations for the JCBA was not a united force against management. Imagine what we could have accomplished with 12000+ on the same page, with the same goals rather than what we ended up with, a 4 year sub-standard contract! When the med tells us that DAL scope is "industry standard" and we are being "unreasonable" for anything less it's kind of hard to say anyone stand alone or not would end up with anything more restrictive. Like it or not "pattern bargaining" is a realization that we take the good AND the bad of the previous carriers CBA. As long as DAL keeps giving it away the longer the carriers following will have to live with it or we live with an old contract in perpetuity. Hoppefully DAL will take it back in 2015. As for the 570's, don't get me started, let's just say I'm tired of being thrown under the bus by the senior pilots of UAL. Maybe as one group we can represent 12000 rather than one sub group....

Well, the Mexican standoff is over, and I think it's worked out as it should for the most part with regard to ISL. The 15+ year sUAL pilot deserved to catch a break even if sCAL guys like me had to take a bit of a hit.* Next contract ought to be a simple us vs mgt deal, as long as we can keep an eye out for a knife in our back from our senior pilots. I swear dude, the worst Lorenzo 83 hire we got is a better pilot to stand with against mgt than what senior UAL pilots turned out to be.

*The quicker you guys train the better. These sCAL schedules are brutal and after 10 years of emergency staffing I've had enough. I think we all have. sUAL can't wait to take the 737 seats from us? Yeah, uh, go ahead. Toe the line and have fun.

 

[Plug]

UAL's plan WAS consolidation! With or without CAL. After DAL/NWA we were going to merge with LCC or CAL. Let's remember who came running to who. CAL was never going to be the surviving entity in the consolidation game. The big three DAL, UAL and AMR were going to be and will be the surviving carriers. As for CALS plans in LAX, plans or rumors don't mean anything until acted upon. Just like the opening of a Florida base in the plans at UAL and CAL for the last decade. CAL and LCC had a load of narrowbody orders, we had widebody orders. Tilton was a ****************************** bag but he came here to take us thru BK and merge. Mission accomplished! I agree with you that the new A/C are utilized more but on who's routes? as of 3/2013 CAL's guppies were flying 60+% of the routed our guppies were flying. The block hours tell the whole story, we don't have to speculate, it's in black and white, ask your SSC chair for the numbers.

And how many CAL guppy routes are being flown by the 319/320?

Tilton trimming down UAL for consolidation, all the while losing money hand over fist is a sign of weakness. You may think we came running to you because we were in dyer straits but lets not forget just 2 years prior we gave you the "thanks, but no thanks". We came to you because we didn't want you guys linking up with LCC and neither did you guys according to UALALPA press releases.

 

[chppr5]

And how many CAL guppy routes are being flown by the 319/320?

Tilton trimming down UAL for consolidation, all the while losing money hand over fist is a sign of weakness. You may think we came running to you because we were in dyer straits but lets not forget just 2 years prior we gave you the "thanks, but no thanks". We came to you because we didn't want you guys linking up with LCC and neither did you guys according to UALALPA press releases.

WOW, 2 steps forward 3 steps back. This has been talked about ad nauseam. Talking points and speculation are not facts. Read the 10k reports from the last 2 qtrs of 2009 and the first qtr of 2010. MUCH different financial situation at UAL and CAL than 2008. Then look at the block hours from the SSC. Read the transcrips of the arbitration, read the arbs opinion. Anything you or I have to say is pointless. The numbers and facts are in print, black and white, fairly easy to get although not easier than saying what you prefer to be true.