Questions for the UNICAL pilots.

[Flopgut]

I don't think you are wrong. We would have not taken it sitting down. I wonder why that is? My opinion, and please feel free to tell me I am wrong, is the CO group is used to getting screwed. They have almost become numb to it. Jeff S , and you were correct about what a piece of work he is, has been calling the shots without an appropriate amount of resistance.

Ok, I have to ask where you've come up with this? Other than just a coping mechanism or idle bs, it doesn't make sense to me. When our contract got violated by the LUAL 70 seat RJ issue, we grieved it and it was adjudicated and we won. It was a small victory, but we took mgt to task through proper channels and won. Conversely, when SFO was going to open a 737 base, your side begged mgt not to follow thru with it because you were to "emotionally" hurt by it. Where is that in the collective bargaining playbook!? You warned me about individual side deals with mgt a few years ago, and your entire side cut one with mgt! You do a good job of complaining, of suing the CAL pilots (the two lawsuits holding up the rest of the lump sum are from LUAL pilots), but I don't see much else. I still have NO idea how you lost the Aer Lingus Greivance.

And here is another question, from another thread conversation but lets chat here: we fly planes for money... How much money did you lose that you blame strike breakers for? I'm talking net $ AFTER united picked you up? Seems to me you recovered fairly well; About as well as any pilot did recover from that sort of thing. How in touch are you really with your LUAL furloughs? They got decimated,ok. What I'm saying is I don't think we can afford your grudge anymore. We ALL need to make money. A lot of money. If we spend 4 years rehashing who's on and not on your list, instead of using every spare moment and each bit of energy to prepare to take mgt to the cleaners, is that ok? Are we that stupid? Or is there really that much left undone from your earlier career that is worth $?


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[eaglesview]

Flops,
Again you are the king of just saying crap and telling folks what they said and not even coming close to reality. Flight manuals must be a bitch for you. Show me where I said strike breakers cost me money!! I said they would be happy to do it for less, if you have to, start reading things twice before you post.

 

[Flopgut]

Show me where I said strike breakers cost me money!!

On another thread we both agreed we fly for money. I would like to hear your estimate for what the strike breakers cost you? What happened back then to you was bad, but since rehashing it is going to cost us all money, I feel we need to drop it. I don't like or approve of that past behavior on those pilots part. But I'm through caring!! You're basically admitting you have no financial problem with these pilots, is that right? If not, lets hear the $ amount? Because the bottom half of this list needs big dollar increases on the next contract that we can't get if you and your "unionists" [joke] trowel out your bs of yesteryear. It's effect is no different than strike breakers doing the job for less.



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[Plug]

To answer the original posters' question.....I'm a spring '06 hire at CAL and lost 1% bidding power (bidding power is all that really matters IMHO) and the UAL pilots lumped in with me gained 11% in the SLI. Prior to the merger I was set to retire at #31 at CAL and that is the exact number that I will retire on the combined list. On a static fleet basis and only taking in to consideration attrition, I will hit 50% no later than 2022 (43 years old), and if I go to 65 I will spend my last 5 years in the top 100. Did I get hosed? No, however, I didn't benefit from the aircraft that CAL brought to the merger and put in to service over the last 3 years. The aircraft that Andy says are being paid for with LUAL cash, yet LUAL was mortgaging spare parts at 17.5% interest, but whatever. I realize that I fall in a small group where the affects of the ISL are pretty neutral.

 

[Shrek]

Neutral?! - you made out like a bandit and you know it. How many more 777s ALONE did UAL bring to the game?

Doesn't matter though now - it is what it is. And if a L-UAL guy would have spouted off half truths I would have called him out on it too.

Because ya see - there are only UAL pilots on one list now. Move on.

 

[chppr5]

Neutral?! - you made out like a bandit and you know it. How many more 777s ALONE did UAL bring to the game?

Doesn't matter though now - it is what it is. And if a L-UAL guy would have spouted off half truths I would have called him out on it too.

Because ya see - there are only UAL pilots on one list now. Move on.

Stop confusing them with facts Shrek. What he doesn't mention is how much SOONER he'll see widebody Cap due to the 3:1 ratio from LUAL.

 

[igneousy2]

To answer the original posters' question.....I'm a spring '06 hire at CAL and lost 1% bidding power (bidding power is all that really matters IMHO) and the UAL pilots lumped in with me gained 11% in the SLI. Prior to the merger I was set to retire at #31 at CAL and that is the exact number that I will retire on the combined list. On a static fleet basis and only taking in to consideration attrition, I will hit 50% no later than 2022 (43 years old), and if I go to 65 I will spend my last 5 years in the top 100. Did I get hosed? No, however, I didn't benefit from the aircraft that CAL brought to the merger and put in to service over the last 3 years. The aircraft that Andy says are being paid for with LUAL cash, yet LUAL was mortgaging spare parts at 17.5% interest, but whatever. I realize that I fall in a small group where the affects of the ISL are pretty neutral.

#31 out of a much larger pilot group means that you have done quite well...neutral? You are crazy if you seriously consider your situation neutral. Congratulations...you win.

 

[AirMike]

Now that Phase 7 is in the content locker, it appears that we may begin mixing crews sooner than later. That being said, for the CO guys....... You will not be welcome on the 767....... No CO F/O will ever get a landing. Go ahead and bid into the isht.

 

[eaglesview]

Now that Phase 7 is in the content locker, it appears that we may begin mixing crews sooner than later. That being said, for the CO guys....... You will not be welcome on the 767....... No CO F/O will ever get a landing. Go ahead and bid into the isht.

You are an idiot. As a UAL pilot I can assure you this is BS put out there by a loose cannon who probably has never flown in his life.

 

[Plug]

Neutral?! - you made out like a bandit and you know it. How many more 777s ALONE did UAL bring to the game?

Doesn't matter though now - it is what it is. And if a L-UAL guy would have spouted off half truths I would have called him out on it too.

Because ya see - there are only UAL pilots on one list now. Move on.

I know these boards are 2 dimensional so maybe you didn't get the undertone, I have moved on, much more important things in life to worry about. By neutral, I mean that while my UAL counterparts on the list get an 11% bump overnight I take an initial hit of 1%. That's right now, that's real. What I benefit from comes later on and is by no means guaranteed. We don't know what would have happened on a standalone basis but I'd much rather be working for the airline that is winning awards, investing in it's fleet, and maintaining a modest growth plan vs. an airline that is bleeding money, has an aging fleet with nothing on order, and has an outdated product.

Since you brought up the 777, a lot of the LUAL folks seem to think that CAL got the winning end of the deal because of all the MEL ridden "Jumbo" aircraft you brought. Tell me, is it fun canceling a flight and spending an extra night away from home because your printer goes inop at the out station?

 

[Plug]

Stop confusing them with facts Shrek. What he doesn't mention is how much SOONER he'll see widebody Cap due to the 3:1 ratio from LUAL.

I know you guys like to think you know what we want but I was only a couple of hundred numbers away from 737 Cap before the age change to 65. 14-02 had me about 100 numbers from 737 Cap and 14-02A had me about 100 numbers away from 756 Cap. That is all from LCAL retirements and aircraft deliveries, oh wait that's right, the airline mortgaging spare parts at 17.5% is the one that came in with the cash to pay for deliveries and with out the merger CAL would go no where. Too bad we won't know either way how we would have made out as standalone carriers but my guess is that the "Tulip" would continue to wilt on the west coast as we grow in it's place. But again, we'll never know.

 

[Plug]

You are an idiot. As a UAL pilot I can assure you this is BS put out there by a loose cannon who probably has never flown in his life.

Agreed! It's fine to banter back and forth on the forum but as soon as you bring an attitude in to the flight deck safety is jeopardized.

 

[Plug]

#31 out of a much larger pilot group means that you have done quite well...neutral? You are crazy if you seriously consider your situation neutral. Congratulations...you win.

Yeah, I'm crazy. Pulling gear for scabs on the 777 is much better than being a 737 Cap.(TIC). I pursued this career because I love flying and this is great means of income to provide for my family. On a standalone basis I would upgrading to 737 Cap within months making more money than a 767 Cap at LUAL. You guys think that future upgrades in exchange for current upgrades is a great deal for us, glad you think so but I'd prefer the sure thing.

 

[chppr5]

Yeah, I'm crazy. Pulling gear for scabs on the 777 is much better than being a 737 Cap.(TIC). I pursued this career because I love flying and this is great means of income to provide for my family. On a standalone basis I would upgrading to 737 Cap within months making more money than a 767 Cap at LUAL. You guys think that future upgrades in exchange for current upgrades is a great deal for us, glad you think so but I'd prefer the sure thing.

Yea, because on a stand alone basis LCAL would have been opening up 737 bases in LAX, DEN, ORD and SFO. I didn't realize their growth plans were so ambitious. Your fleet count is the same as pre-merger, growth block hours came from LUAL block hours. Look at the numbers per domicile, it's black and white. But then again the talking points your MEC and MC filled your head with are now your facts. UFB! I want to move on but when I hear this revisionist history I regress!

 

[Flopgut]

Yea, because on a stand alone basis LCAL would have been opening up 737 bases in LAX, DEN, ORD and SFO. I didn't realize their growth plans were so ambitious. Your fleet count is the same as pre-merger, growth block hours came from LUAL block hours. Look at the numbers per domicile, it's black and white. But then again the talking points your MEC and MC filled your head with are now your facts. UFB! I want to move on but when I hear this revisionist history I regress!

Why don't you square up on the scope issue as part of your "moving on"? Stand alone basis LCAL was not budging on scope. Where else were we going to fly 737s after LUAL infected our operation with the 70 seat airplanes? LUAL put 70 seaters in our bases, LCAL put 737s in your bases.

What you should understand from this is how important scope is. But you seem to shut down whenever it's mentioned.

The career disparity that exists at certain longevity points in our lists is there because you let your LUAL ALPA leadership sell you out on scope. You let PW sign a side letter for 70 seat airplanes. I'm glad to see that UAL pilots with 15+ years can bid captain. They're long overdue and quite frankly, we need the help! I'm utterly sick of these schedules while sUAL guys can WOP trips and fly 50 hours a month. But understand this: We can never let scope go again! AND, we can never let 570s and their ilk throw the rest of us under the bus while they try to save their own asses!!