Question for US Air and AWA Pilots

[BeCareful!]

There's only one person acting like a "victim" here ....and thats YOU!! (or is that "U" ?)

No lack of understanding on my part... I know how "U" guys work. It's "All About U",isn't it? Always has,and always will...
PHXFLYR

PHX,

Not true. Many in your shoes are acting like "victims" of this merger. You with your "poor misfortune" post, Itsallsogood with his whining about lack of upgrades. AWA hiring 80/month? How long do we all suppose that was going to last? What a joke!

Be safe out there. The wild assumptions you've made about people on this forum make me question your abilities to think straight. At the very least, you guys lack empathy. Do your "friends" find that a good quality?

 

[vetrider]

As a west guy, I don't think either side has a corner on the whining market. Of course I can't say that I've talked to a lot of east guys, only about 2 in the last 13 years have even acknowledged my presence anywhere. I'll leave it at that. Lately, though, I have flown with 3 furloughees from '99, and met a couple of others, and they all have been great pilots and nice people. Come to think of it, the east furloughees I just mentioned did not whine or complain about anything at all. Maybe the rest of us on both coasts should follow their lead and shut up now.

 

[Itsallsogood]

"lack empathy" again gmafb. Screw us, AWA, but be empathetic to us, U.

 

[PHXFLYR]

.................

 

[PHXFLYR]

PHX,

Not true. Many in your shoes are acting like "victims" of this merger. You with your "poor misfortune" post, Itsallsogood with his whining about lack of upgrades. AWA hiring 80/month? How long do we all suppose that was going to last? What a joke!

Be safe out there. The wild assumptions you've made about people on this forum make me question your abilities to think straight. At the very least, you guys lack empathy. Do your "friends" find that a good quality?

Lack "empathy" ??? You mean, you want us to feel sorry for you ???? Seems like you're the one that has a problem with "thinking straight. Here's a question for you,"Captain". Did you feel sorry for the AWA pilots when they were mired in Chapter 11 back in the early 90's? Uh-huh...didn't think so. How about the UA guys? Delta? NWA? That's what I thought.......



PHXFLYR
.

 

[PHXFLYR]

What do you want we AWA folks to do? We listen to the whinings of the East every day. U lost this....U lost that. We, at AWA, never had it . Stop whining. How about the poor guy with 35 years of senority at U not being able to bump a current employee with only 2 years while non-reving? Yet that same has guy wants his 2 years old grandkid to bump said EMPLOYEE out of a seat and he expects to show up at pust time to do it. How about the council 41 guys whining about the call sign Cactus? Or what about the U guys demanding all the upgrades because they were displaced and have first rights back to thier seat? ITS not the same USAirways anymore. How about the furloghees wanting date of hire, something like 1988 but have perhaps a total of 3 years on the property? The whining just doesn't stop from the EAST.

Now don't you go confusing "Be Careful" with the facts now, young fellla....



PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yea here is a question for you, what are you talking about? You cant possibly expect someone that has lost his pension, had his pay cut in half, been downgraded, and can look foward to being junior to a guy hired last year to be happy about it. I was only asking that people refrain from rubbing their noses in it. The West guys WILL be the benefactors from this deal as no matter what the arbitrator does the West Will hold most of the senior spots in 10 years. that is not sour grapes its just the way it is. mostly because so many of U pilots are still furloughed. That is just my opinion, we will see who is correct in a few years when we look at the new list. No matter what our individual opinions are, this mess will be sorted out by the arbitrator and there is nothing you, I , or any other guy on this board can do about it. Maybe if we all try to take the high road and stop slamming the other guy or his company this crap will taper off.

On a unrelated note did you used to work for ALG?

I really agree with most of what you say,except for your claim that most of us will hold the senior spots 10 years down the road. You guys think we just parked our skateboards yesterday when the reality is must of us are in our late 40's,early 50's . So to say that most of us will hold the "senior slots" as you like to call them, I really don't think so.Regarding "slamming the other guy,or his company" , I think the only way that even has a snowballs chance in hell of happening is if we all find "Be Careful" and put a muzzle on him!! His absolute disgust and disdain for anything AWA knows no bounds and I'm beginning to wonder if extends beyond merger related issues. And to answer your last question. No, I didn't work for ALG. How about you?


PHXFLYR



And by the way, I never asked you to be "happy" with what you lost...just maybe thankful that the bloodletting is over for the time being.I think it's time for all of us to refocus our pent up rage on trying to recoupe what was lost by some and never had by others, together. But from the exchanges I see on this weboard, I guess that's asking too much. Good Night.

 

[PHXFLYR]

While I personally never made that money I can answer #2
The pensions are gone, so its worth nothing and will never kick in!

The stock options are also gone via the 2nd bankruptcy. All that remained is a couple of grand worth. Better than nothing I guess but what can you do with 2 or 3 grand mr. financial genious?

I never had the big house Ref. your point #1

Again why do you guys find it necessary to slam on guys who have already been beaten to a pulp? It serves no purpose and can only create more hostility between the groups. No matter what we will all have to work together at some point in the future.

I don't know...Maybe it has something to do with the petty name calling like "financial genius" in posts like yours ? Regarding pensions,doesn't the PBCG cover the furloughed employees? After all there are quite a few with 10+years senority that lost their jobs.Granted, it isn't much when compared to the pensions that were lost, but for those who never had one,anything is an improvement.

PHXFLYR

 

[FR8mastr]

I give up, Airways sucks and Am West is the greatest airline ever.

there, now can we stop?

 

[PHXFLYR]

I give up, Airways sucks and Am West is the greatest airline ever.

there, now can we stop?

To be quite honest with you, neither one is any bargain !!! Sorta like tie-ing the Lusitania and the Titanic together and hoping they both float


PHXFLYR

 

[BeCareful!]

PHX, WTF are you talking about? Hell yes I felt bad for AWA guys back in the early 1990s!!! I wanted to work there back then! And I have dear friends at UAL, NWA, DAL.....and I feel for them too. I've sent money to striking pilots. I've walked the picket line for other groups. What the hell is your problem with reading my words and getting this unreal hatred for me? All I've done is respond to the truly reprehensible language your pilots have used toward my brothers here in the East. Without a doubt, I've never seen such BS from any pilot group. To read the crap your people write, it would make the uninitiated believe AWA was a haven of aviation bliss, where the contract was golden and the upgrades were non-stop. You guys make the APA seem reasonable, rational, humble even. Let me tell ya, that's a big task.

What's with the snide "captain" label. Have I ever given off the impression that being in the left seat is any sort of big deal? I don't do that at work, that's for sure. Are you suffering from some tiller envy? Do you miss "commanding" the Dash?

Dude, you've got issues. You have no idea who you're talking to here, and your empty accusations painting me as some sort of selfish bastard are completely unfounded. Are you related to Ann Coulter, or do you just fantasize about it?

 

[Itsallsogood]

Whaaa...... How about just re reading only your posts.

 

[BeCareful!]

What context would that offer? How about your posts there, Mr. 10000+? You come off as quite the tool there, Pal.

 

[Itsallsogood]

Ok Mr CRJ200/CRJ700 CAPTAIN explain how you got that position at PSA? Were you an FO there for anytime? How about the F/O's hired there that now have to wait for you to decide if you want to go back to the mainline ( in the E190) ? Super Senority for you. Screw the PSAers.

 

[Crzipilot]

How he got the position. Hmmm...it's been rehashed and rehased. But to sum it up for you. Jobs being cut and outsourced, ALPA attempting to come up with a program that would mitigate managments "we are in a situation we never dreamed we'd have such oppurtunities", taking of our pensions, Eliminating 3-4 fleet types to the lowest outsourcer. etc etc etc.
PSA, well strangely, hasn't gotten completely screwed. they had about a 35 t/p fleet. and no 49a/c with some more possibly coming. Looking at the senority list, I believe a number of PSA'rs that are capts, wouldn't be if the dork simply stayed and the stayed status quo. Why, well alot of PSA capts that left, I would imagine were able to with the addition of jet time on their resume, others able to, just because they had the experience with or without the jet time. So in essence, if psa stayed with the dorks there wouldn't have been any growth, a little movement. Hence some of the guys that are capts now, would prob. still be f/o's. In fact looking at the numbers 4 crews/ac, as it stands now, the j4j's are only occupying the planes which represented growth to PSA. We won't go into what the future looked like for PSA, nor that the original J4J deal was supposed to be a bi-directional flow, just started in the opposite form. Which is where the animosity comes from, but why does it always have to start with an upward flow anywyas? (retorical question there) The J4J's sucked up some of the capt slots, but alot of those have left too. There's 50% or less then orginally here.

Now I see your concerned about our choice to go to the 190 or not, and the PSAers getting screwed over that fact. Well if your so concerned, why don't you petition your MEC to drop the arbitration requestion 50% of the seats on the 190, so your 2-4 year f/o's can upgrade or your other guys can get back to a east coast base? Especially since there are 1800 pilots on the street, screwing over other airlines? Oh I'm sorry, I guess the better QOL of a shorter commute, and the ability for your jr. f/o's to check out (and continue those lost upgrades) and get a pay raise is more important. Ok....

And before you go slamming the J4J program, watch out....there's always the possibility you may need such a program in the future, as US mgmt figures a way to outsource MORE flying to the lowest bidder.

 

[Itsallsogood]

Well lets agree I will not settle this properly. I have a buddy at PSA. 20 years senority that is constanly being bumped DOWN by more and more 18 years U forloughees. HE loses senority.......... But the U'S DON'T CARE ITS THEIR RIGHT TO SCREW THE GUYS THAT JUST WANT TO FLOW UP. STOP WHINING. And a current update....12400 TT

 

[Crzipilot]

Sorry, but he's not constantly getting bumped down. he's got 20 yrs...and well then he's at the top of the list. Only a few there that have it. When the 700's came on property, it was supposed to be staffed by U furloughees ONLY, I.E. keep 70 seaters at mainline or a shadow of it. the 170's to MDA, the 700's to PSA due to common types. Now the 700's showed up and the PSA guys (rightfully so) cried BS. Well U mec stood and told mgmt, 100% or nothing, well they settled on slotted bidding and the PSA guys got to fly the heavy. With the slotting, it works like this. A certain ratio (currently at 28 or so pilots, get slotted in with the PSA guys. 1 PSA...1 US...1 PSA....and it's only for monthly bidding. So once that started...if he was #2 in base for bidding he became #3...and has stayed there. There aren't continued people going above him. So once again get your facts straight before mouthing off at something you don't have a clue about.

But of course you look all this over, as PSA getting screwed, Open your eyes at the bigger picture and see the OUTSOURCING of all those jobs that the rat jets have taken over. How many rat jets do you guys see in PHX???? what's gonna happen when they take the East philosophy over there and dump 400 rat jets on your routes??? Then start to furlough you guys. Are you gonna cry about PSA getting screwed then??? IF they are the ones flying those things? While ML furloughs? just another rhetorical question to chew on for a bit.

So not sure what your trying to settle, but first step would be to get the facts, I guess.....
I would think with your 12400 hours that you'd be able to see the forest from the trees, but then I've flown with many with much more time than yourself that have the same problem.....

 

[PHXFLYR]

Whaaa...... How about just re reading only your posts.

Yeah...really!


PHXFLYR

 

[Green]

Open your eyes at the bigger picture and see the OUTSOURCING of all those jobs that the rat jets have taken over. How many rat jets do you guys see in PHX???? what's gonna happen when they take the East philosophy over there and dump 400 rat jets on your routes??? Then start to furlough you guys. Are you gonna cry about PSA getting screwed then??? IF they are the ones flying those things? While ML furloughs? just another rhetorical question to chew on for a bit.

quote]

The big picture is going to be when Bush relaxes foreign ownership rules and what's left of our careers goes down the toilet. Remember what happened to the merchant marines? We might as well kiss most international flying/expansion goodbye if he gets away with it...

 

[BeCareful!]

Crzi-

Talking to an AWA guy about scope and outsourcing is like counseling a prostitute on the merits of waiting for her wedding night. They were the original "hey, let 'em fly 90 seaters" group.

And yes, the proverbial yet mythical "screwing" of the PSA pilot. More PSA pilots hold lines as captains than ever before. Talk about whining. I know several FO's who won't upgrade until they can hold a line, but at the same time take credit for being a downtrodden, 4 year FO. Everyone's got a story.

Crzi is right, though, J4J was one last ditch effort from ALPA to force the company to deal with outsourcing in a fair and equitable way. Predictably, pilots only see it from their selfish agenda, thus the infighting.....and again Jerry Glass smiles.