Question For The Navy Folks

[pilotyip]

ditto

You'll have to submit a packet requesting it, and anything is possible, but if I were on the board reviewing your packet, I'd vote no. I've only been retired from the Navy for a little over a year but I'm pretty sure most of the guys and gals still serving would vote the same way. I had more than my share of tying it up w/ NAMI, almost from the word go, and trust me, a motivated positive attitude from the start goes a long way toward saving a flying career in the Navy.

All they can do is say no. Look into the other services, USMC, maybe even Army flight training, I know guard units have open pilot slots. Volunteering for an ACDU IA to the sandbox with follow on orders might also work. Of course assuming our new pres. in Nov has any affection for the military.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I say give it a shot -- they are indeed "winging everything with a pulse" and better yet, they are giving everybody hornets in the jet syllabus (no matter how much they suck). Sad to say, but from my peers still flying in the reserves, it's true.

Naval Aviation is changing my friends. Business school took charge of the program and it's been going downhill ever since. Pretty soon, we will be the Air Force.

Bjammin -- you're a d1ck. Give the guy some slack.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The lead F-14 pilot during the filming of the movie Top Gun (first one listed in the credits), was a guy who busted the eye test to be a pilot...became an F-14 RIO...then re-treaded as a pilot.

Best line I remember from my F-4 days, spoken by a RIO who went on to 4-star rank: "Never fly with a RIO that doesn't wear glasses...'cuz then you don't know what the hell's wrong with him!"

Hell, I used to get some ribbing for wearing contacts (eyes went about 4hrs after my winging to about 20/70 -- must have been that Absinthe I drank all night long at the old NMM O-Club). But having seen many-a pilot squinting to see something off in the distance, I always told my RIOs -- "Look, do you know how many pilots need "cheaters" but don't wear them because their ego won't let them? Trust me, more than you know. Well, is that the pilot you want bringing your fata$$ back aboard the ship at 0300 in pitching seas after a 7 hr mission?"

 

[PUCKFA18]

All they can do is say no. Look into the other services, USMC, maybe even Army flight training, I know guard units have open pilot slots. Volunteering for an ACDU IA to the sandbox with follow on orders might also work. Of course assuming our new pres. in Nov has any affection for the military.

pilotyip: no disrespect sir, but the corps would never take a DOR......

 

[Bjammin]

Bjammin -- you're a d1ck. Give the guy some slack.

If my ECMO buds that i've served with for years don't get a slot why should I let a quitter get his pilot wings before them?

There are NFO's with tons of real world experience that stuck it out just for the chance of getting a slot. Most of them never even b1tched. Tell me how Joey deserves a slot before them?

 

[pilotyip]

they did in 66

pilotyip: no disrespect sir, but the corps would never take a DOR......

I went throught training with a MARCAD USMC pilot who had dropped from the AVROC program. No college degree on his way to helo's and Vietnam. He may have come from the USMC reserve enlisted ranks? Never saw him again after VT-2

 

[Bavarian Chef]

If my ECMO buds that i've served with for years don't get a slot why should I let a quitter get his pilot wings before them?

There are NFO's with tons of real world experience that stuck it out just for the chance of getting a slot. Most of them never even b1tched. Tell me how Joey deserves a slot before them?

I didn't say he deserved anything, much less anything before your ECMO buddies. I said he deserved slack. Many NFOs are NFOs for a reason other than a "slight" astigmatism btw. And since when was the NFO or ECMO pipeline a prerequisite for snagging a pilot slot? NEVER. In fact, Stacy Bates put a nice exclamation point on that whole NFO to Pilot transition back in 1996. It only took a non-Aviator CNO in his infinite wisdom to reinstate it (to many mixed reviews).

I personally didn't join the Navy to be an NFO, nor did I join to fly EA-6Bs -- so I can only imagine how I would have felt if I somehow got either (especially if you had spent your whole life dreaming of something else). I guess some of us are "luckier" than others, but in this guy's case it sounds like he understands that he messed up and wants another shot.

 

[Bjammin]

And since when was the NFO or ECMO pipeline a prerequisite for snagging a pilot slot? NEVER.

I agree, but quitting is a big deal. You know as well as I there are some days, or weeks or months, that absolutly SUCK, even as a pilot, beyond our wildest imigination of what we think "suck" is. Joey persents a big "?" as to if he would survive those times, more so then any new-be.

There are many many guys out there with ZERO military experience that deserve a chance before Joey because they have the heart to stick it out and reach their dreams.

 

[PUCKFA18]

Bavarian Chef and Bjammin have good points. But, have we forgotten (including Joey) the reason we choose our dream. I never took it for granted!!!!!

I wanted to serve my country first and foremost. Everything else was a bonus.......

It is my opinion that Joey had his (Dream) shot and blew it..Life goes on!!!!!!!!

 

[Oh-ryan]

Bavarian Chef and Bjammin have good points. But, have we forgotten (including Joey) the reason we choose our dream. I never took it for granted!!!!!

I wanted to serve my country first and foremost. Everything else was a bonus.......

It is my opinion that Joey had his (Dream) shot and blew it..Life goes on!!!!!!!!

That's all well and good, but I joined to be a pilot. Period. Didn't care what service it was. I wanted to fly military aircraft and blow sh!t up. If I washed out my resignation from service would have been filed as quickly as possible. There was no way I was gonna "serve my country" as a NFO, Supply Corps O, SWO, AF vending machine stocker or whatever. I am sure there are plenty of others that feel the same way. I do applaud your dedication to serve though.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Note difference between Marine fighter pilot...and Navy patrol pilot...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I agree, but quitting is a big deal. You know as well as I there are some days, or weeks or months, that absolutly SUCK, even as a pilot, beyond our wildest imigination of what we think "suck" is. Joey persents a big "?" as to if he would survive those times, more so then any new-be.

There are many many guys out there with ZERO military experience that deserve a chance before Joey because they have the heart to stick it out and reach their dreams.

Okay, but my point is, that he wanted to be a pilot, and he had no way of knowing he would be out on the street after the DOR (despite a sneaky suspicion). Or he could have sucked it up, been a RIO/WSO/ECMO/TACAMO etc and NEVER EVER had a chance to pursue his dream of being a pilot. Being an NFO was not one of his dreams, so I guess he wasn't willing to stick it out. And that must have been a terribly tough choice to make considering the repercussions. It did take some courage, after all.

I too joined because of a strong sense of purpose and a desire to serve my country -- in fact I have long evolved into a Naval Officer, which not every Naval Aviator is willing to due over the course of a career. In his case, he made a choice. No, I don't think he "weakened a country", and I don't begrudge him making that choice. Many pre-sub cones quit and still serve their minimum service requirements and their country.

But before this thread gets any longer than it has to be, I certainly understand that it is COMPLETELY unreasonable to expect that you will get what you want from the military as if it exists to serve you. That being said (as one who personally got his second choice at commissioning, yes aviation was my second choice, and then once again at my winging, yes F-14Ds were my second choice) their are plenty of people that join the military with some sort of guarantee -- GASP, including Marine pilots, Occam. I took what I got and loved every minute of it (okay almost every minute). All I was saying was that a comment like "kick you back to the regionals" as you sit in your 10k a month 747 job was a little harsh, considering he came to this board with more than enough humility. But your point about quitting and intestinal fortitude -- I get it. He alone has to answer to that.

And Occam, I have met PLENTY of d1ckhead self-serving Marine / Navy /AF fighter pilots in my day so no need to differentiate between patrol and pointy nose.

 

[PUCKFA18]

Guy's....we are wasting alot of energy on this. The simple fact is that JoeyC punched out (DOR) after he was commisioned, not before.... There is a BIG difference. We all know that his chances of getting selected again are .0000000001..at least in my opinion.

my .02

 

[Oh-ryan]

Note difference between Marine fighter pilot...and Navy patrol pilot...

I served with just as much pride as anyone in uniform there McFly. The point that I was trying to make is that I wanted to serve from the cockpit an nowhere else. When I saw my time in the cockpit coming to end (like it naturally does as you progress through the ranks)- I left. Proud to have served and grateful for all the military had given me. Like I said- I know plenty of other guys and gals that felt the same way and left when their flying days were numbered. Some of them were the best officers I had the honor to serve with. I see you flew "fighters"- would you have signed up to be a grunt if you couldn't be a superfantastic fighter pilot?

Oh, the other big difference is that Navy patrol pilots have much bigger wallets- from all the per diem ya know.

Now isn't there an ALPA bake sale you need to get ready for?

 

[Occam's Razor]

And Occam, I have met PLENTY of d1ckhead self-serving Marine / Navy /AF fighter pilots in my day so no need to differentiate between patrol and pointy nose.

I didn't. They did. I asked you to "Note" it.

I guess you didn't read what each of them posted.

Oh-Ryan told us: "That's all well and good, but I joined to be a pilot. Period."

Puck told us: "I wanted to serve my country first and foremost. Everything else was a bonus......."

Lemme know when you figure out the difference.