Question for the CHQ folks

[JoeMerchant]

Can any CHQ pilots shed some light on this qoute from Bedford?

"If we can’t give Delta the larger jets they want, at competitive cost, because our labor agreements do not provide such flexibility, then Delta will be forced to reject our existing small jet business (39 jets) and give it to a carrier like Mesa or Skywest which can accommodate their cash needs, and their jets for jobs, larger regional jet outsourcing requirements. When you consider this possibility, jets for jobs is no longer about growing our business and creating new job opportunities for our employees, it is now about protecting our current employees, especially our people in Florida. "

 

[General Lee]

Can any CHQ pilots shed some light on this qoute from Bedford?

"If we can’t give Delta the larger jets they want, at competitive cost, because our labor agreements do not provide such flexibility, then Delta will be forced to reject our existing small jet business (39 jets) and give it to a carrier like Mesa or Skywest which can accommodate their cash needs, and their jets for jobs, larger regional jet outsourcing requirements. When you consider this possibility, jets for jobs is no longer about growing our business and creating new job opportunities for our employees, it is now about protecting our current employees, especially our people in Florida. "

Jet's for jobs? Isn't that like giving furloughed pilots jobs? I thought CHQ may have done that in the past, and maybe they offer that now on the E170s for DL? Hmmm. That sure is nice of them, I guess....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sleddriver77]

We think he's blowin' smoke to try and get some concessions, and that it largely has to do with MidAtlantic.

 

[LearLove]

I would venture to guess it has something to do with the MDA thing also.

And on the J4J thing: J4J is not what it was intended to be. In these times where furloughs may last the rest of your career, read no returning to mainline, a J4J position at the bottom forever is just not good IMHO. Its more the reason that we need a "national" senority list or "one list". If the industry need 50000 part 121 pilots then the top 50000 bid for whatever they want and DOH determines what they can hold. I shrugged my shoulders at this befor but am warming up to it as we go along. I think it could be a solution to alot of our career problems.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We think he's blowin' smoke to try and get some concessions, and that it largely has to do with MidAtlantic.

Sleddriver or anyother CHQ pilot,
Any chance you could post the entire letter, or PM it to me.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

I would venture to guess it has something to do with the MDA thing also.

And on the J4J thing: J4J is not what it was intended to be. In these times where furloughs may last the rest of your career, read no returning to mainline, a J4J position at the bottom forever is just not good IMHO. Its more the reason that we need a "national" senority list or "one list". If the industry need 50000 part 121 pilots then the top 50000 bid for whatever they want and DOH determines what they can hold. I shrugged my shoulders at this befor but am warming up to it as we go along. I think it could be a solution to alot of our career problems.

LearLove,
J4Js is nothing more than a tiny bandaid on a gushing wound. I take it you were a wholly owned (PDT or ALG) pilot who fell for the "flow through" to MidAtlantic. Once again, ALPA dropped the ball on the whole J4J and MidAtlantic fiasco. When will we learn? While many may not like the RJDC, they were dead right about J4J.

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/J4J_FactSheet.pdf
http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/020104up.pdf
http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/040404Update.pdf

 

[LearLove]

LearLove,
J4Js is nothing more than a tiny bandaid on a gushing wound. I take it you were a wholly owned (PDT or ALG) pilot who fell for the "flow through" to MidAtlantic. Once again, ALPA dropped the ball on the whole J4J and MidAtlantic fiasco. When will we learn? While many may not like the RJDC, they were dead right about J4J.

http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/J4J_FactSheet.pdf
http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/020104up.pdf
http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/040404Update.pdf

I wouldn't say I "fell" for anything at MDA.

At this time last year I was downgraded and looking at around 180 out of 300 or so on the ALG senority list with the future looking like 16 or 18 dashes left at ALG. That would have put me at the bottom of the list if not one of the last furloughed as we were not sure what would happen with the PDT thing. Also when (and if back then) the merger took place and was DOH I may have been able to reupgrade or a sen FO but then in short order PDT was set to return dashs at the end of 2005 so would have been right back in the same position.

The MDA thing came down the hatch and they were getting 85 170's and when you did the math at worst I'd be somewhere in the middle of the FO list by this time. But alas, I finish training in sept 2004 and bang, CH11, we (MDA) stop deliveries and PDT/ALG get to keep the Dash8s they were set to return.

Had I stayed i'd be a line hold CA at PDT. There is nothing I can do about it now, at the time (June 2004) I gathered all the info I could, weighed my choices and made the best decision based on the given info that I could. Unfortuniatly it was "swing-and-a-miss" number 2 in my career so far (my decision to turn down airtran in 2001 being the first).

 

[OldManPilot]

anyone waiting for E190's at CHQ/REP/S5 may have a long wait. I don't think the J4J deal for those aircraft are going to fly unless the company agrees to correct some current problems first. The pilots at CHQ/REP/S5 are tired of the abuse and refuse to jump for the "shiny new airplane" ploy. BB is already rattling his saber to make the pilots look like the scapegoat for not getting E190's. Or, it is simply the same ploy used when he said, "Pilots ruined the deal for United flying".

Just wish we didn't have to deal with the E190's. They should be mainline aircraft!

 

[Cracker]

I agree with Old Man...most of the pilots here recognize the memo as a preemptive threat. It has been done at CHQ/REP before, and the group is tired of biting at it just so they have another contract to violate at their will.

Our union reps are working on these issues, so we'll see how it develops.

 

[Jack Mahogoff]

I wouldn't say I "fell" for anything at MDA.

At this time last year I was downgraded and looking at around 180 out of 300 or so on the ALG senority list with the future looking like 16 or 18 dashes left at ALG. That would have put me at the bottom of the list if not one of the last furloughed as we were not sure what would happen with the PDT thing. Also when (and if back then) the merger took place and was DOH I may have been able to reupgrade or a sen FO but then in short order PDT was set to return dashs at the end of 2005 so would have been right back in the same position.

The MDA thing came down the hatch and they were getting 85 170's and when you did the math at worst I'd be somewhere in the middle of the FO list by this time. But alas, I finish training in sept 2004 and bang, CH11, we (MDA) stop deliveries and PDT/ALG get to keep the Dash8s they were set to return.

Had I stayed i'd be a line hold CA at PDT. There is nothing I can do about it now, at the time (June 2004) I gathered all the info I could, weighed my choices and made the best decision based on the given info that I could. Unfortuniatly it was "swing-and-a-miss" number 2 in my career so far (my decision to turn down airtran in 2001 being the first).

Lear,

Since you chose to go to MDA, is there any possibility of returning to PDT/ALG in the future? Just curious as to what the original offer was.

-Jack

 

[AAflyer]

I would venture to guess it has something to do with the MDA thing also.

And on the J4J thing: J4J is not what it was intended to be. In these times where furloughs may last the rest of your career, read no returning to mainline, a J4J position at the bottom forever is just not good IMHO. Its more the reason that we need a "national" senority list or "one list". If the industry need 50000 part 121 pilots then the top 50000 bid for whatever they want and DOH determines what they can hold. I shrugged my shoulders at this befor but am warming up to it as we go along. I think it could be a solution to alot of our career problems.

Learlove,

How do we determine DOH, Is it based on when we were hired at our last carrier? Or is it when we got on with our first airline? Which airlines would those include? For instance if I was hired at AA in summer of 98 and a COEX pilot was hired a month before me, do they hold a more senior number? What about my time at the companies I flew before AA while the COEX pilot was a flight instructor, some ALPA, other non-union. I agree that we need to head in this direction but where do we intergrate at? When we held out ATP, or commercial license?

Just curious as to your observations.

Regards,
AA

 

[bvt1151]

Sounds like he's priming the pump for concessions.

 

[Axel]

Sounds like he's priming the pump for concessions.

I would be surprised if he pumped anything but mud.

 

[Cracker]

If it's one thing I can guarantee, concessions aint' gonna' happen at CHQ/REP/SAC. We already need to bump the scales up as it is. His "threats" are very familiar...we heard it back in the day about the 145's.

No one took concessions then, either.

 

[LearLove]

Lear,

Since you chose to go to MDA, is there any possibility of returning to PDT/ALG in the future? Just curious as to what the original offer was.

-Jack

Yes, No, Maybe or somewhere inbetween. The agreement has specific language if there are furloughs at MDA/Mainline to go back but that part was never "finalized" due to the events of last summer. So it all depends on who you ask.

Clear as Mud, right.....

 

[LearLove]

Learlove,

How do we determine DOH, Is it based on when we were hired at our last carrier? Or is it when we got on with our first airline? Which airlines would those include? For instance if I was hired at AA in summer of 98 and a COEX pilot was hired a month before me, do they hold a more senior number? What about my time at the companies I flew before AA while the COEX pilot was a flight instructor, some ALPA, other non-union. I agree that we need to head in this direction but where do we intergrate at? When we held out ATP, or commercial license?

Just curious as to your observations.

Regards,
AA

Yeah I know, I was thinking about that as I was writing the post. I'm sure there would be 1000 other questions or situations that would arise maybe even making the idea impossible in the end. But on paper without the "start-up" mess I think it would wonders for the job security of a pilot career. I'd venture to guess that once you got 20% or like ten years of pilots under you, you could expect to be pretty secure. You just may have to move up or down depending on the cycle. I don't know anyway, it was just a thought.

 

[E170Guppykiller]

We at CHQ need to be responsive and sympathetic to the needs of managemant as well as the needs of the pilot group. Working together we can achieve what both need. Management gets what it needs, a competitive cost structure and the pilots get what they need, more jets for more upgrades so we can advance to the majors. People on this board and most at work always assume the worst about management and their needs. Face it times are tough and we need to stay the most competitive regional out there so we can continue to grow.

 

[House_X]

We at CHQ need to be responsive and sympathetic to the needs of managemant as well as the needs of the pilot group. Working together we can achieve what both need. Management gets what it needs, a competitive cost structure and the pilots get what they need, more jets for more upgrades so we can advance to the majors. People on this board and most at work always assume the worst about management and their needs. Face it times are tough and we need to stay the most competitive regional out there so we can continue to grow.

You guys at CHQ need to shut this guy up...even if it is flamebait...he's REEEEALLY making you look bad...hopefully he's a troll and not on your senority list.

 

[MAX CON]

Guppykiller ...You sound like you have not had the pleasure of being furloughed in your career. The fruits of the management has delt a blow to your head with SJS...

I have been readying flightinfo for a few years know and you must be the most clueless poor excuse of a pilot.

 

[FlamingFUPA]

if you guys keep responding to him, he won't go away. I wish some mod would just ban this asshat already.