Question for the AA Guys

[wms]

I swear, I have heard more PAs over tower freq. at DFW than at any other airport. The one or two times I have heard it at other airports, AA is almost always the offender.

LAXSaabdude.

It's good to practice it on other crews and ATC before you say it to the pax. The feedback is always so constructive.

 

[Swede]

Swede,

You forgot to add in calling "que" freq. You knows us stupids pilots can't fugire out whichs runways to putz in our FM,,CC,,FM,,SS you know them box thingys......

AA

Yea, lets do all this out of spot 9 taking off on 17R...Whoooaaa

Since this thread is drifting, I'll add this... it seems that DFW RNAV departures are once again turned off. I don't know why, maybe the latest iteration got screwed up again, or maybe it satisfied the powers that be, but two days ago, everyone was back to the old vectors.

 

[aa73]

AA has always been a "Captain's" airline, and this thread shows why... I don't particularly have a problem with Captains making all the PAs, in fact I am one of the few AA f/os that always offer to make PAs on my legs just so I can remember how to do them (when I upgrade in, like 20 years.) The "Prepare for Takeoff" PA is a captain's PA at AA because usually the f/o is pretty busy finishing up checklist items. The only time this can be an issue is when we are in one of those MD80s that don't have a PA mike switch on the audio panel, so the captain has to reach down and pick up the "telephone" PA, which usually causes swerving. (a good f/o will already have it waiting on the pedestal.)

I agree, the Takeoff PA is pretty easy to make as a captain, what's the big deal. Just one less thing the f/o has to worry about accomplishing. However there are a lot of captains who give a long spiel instead of just saying "prepare for TO", which results in a sterile violation.

The "prepare for arrival and crosscheck" PA when arriving at the gate is pretty lame. At every other airline, the F/As make this PA when the aircraft stops and the seatbelt sign turns off. F/Os shouldn't have to be worrying about making a PA at this crucial time, they should be heads up and outside looking for catering trucks and such.

 

[75M]

The issue, in my mind, isn't necessarily, "who does what when". We've all been around long enough to know that procedures are, to a certain extend, arbitrary. In other words, DAL, UAL, AWA, etc, all operate the 737, and they all operate it a little bit differently. One manner isn't necessarily better or worse than another. The important thing, is that within a company, within interchangeable crews, everybody knows what to expect from their fellow crew members. That's important.

If AA feels like the Captain should be the voice of the airline and make all the PAs, fine. If AA decides that the Captain will call for all the checklists while the airplane is on the ground, great. If AA deems it appropriate for the FO to do all the walkarounds, that's their right.

However, the upshot is that the FO is denied any opportunity to "manage the operation". While I'm assuming we can all fly just fine, the need to "manage the operation" is critical for airline crews and critical for FOs upgrading to Captain. There is no reason why many tasks cannot be delegated based on PF/PNF basis versus CA/FO basis. The Captain is still the Captain and has final veto power over any operational decision.

Personally, I think if the FO is truly "a captain in training", then WHENEVER POSSIBLE tasks should be assigned on a PF/PNF basis.

 

[aa73]

The issue, in my mind, isn't necessarily, "who does what when". We've all been around long enough to know that procedures are, to a certain extend, arbitrary. In other words, DAL, UAL, AWA, etc, all operate the 737, and they all operate it a little bit differently. One manner isn't necessarily better or worse than another. The important thing, is that within a company, within interchangeable crews, everybody knows what to expect from their fellow crew members. That's important.

If AA feels like the Captain should be the voice of the airline and make all the PAs, fine. If AA decides that the Captain will call for all the checklists while the airplane is on the ground, great. If AA deems it appropriate for the FO to do all the walkarounds, that's their right.

However, the upshot is that the FO is denied any opportunity to "manage the operation". While I'm assuming we can all fly just fine, the need to "manage the operation" is critical for airline crews and critical for FOs upgrading to Captain. There is no reason why many tasks cannot be delegated based on PF/PNF basis versus CA/FO basis. The Captain is still the Captain and has final veto power over any operational decision.

Personally, I think if the FO is truly "a captain in training", then WHENEVER POSSIBLE tasks should be assigned on a PF/PNF basis.

75M,

You have this way of thinking because you actually worked for an airline that believed in promoting the PF/PNF split in the cockpit. TWA's philosophy was that the f/o is a CA in training, and were treated as such. Here at AA the f/o is just that, nothing more. We are not really trained in making PAs because "it's the captain's job." We are not trained in starting engines because that's the captain's job. All we do is work the radios and the checklist, or fly the aircraft on our legs.

I had a great time flying with the TWA captains in STL because they really included my input during my legs. I learned more in my year and a half in STL then I did in 5 years here at AA because of that.

I think for that reason we have a lot of captains here who have a harder time upgrading than at most other airlines. It's simply the cockpit culture at this airline, which is somewhat old fashioned. I've had captains look at me with an incredulous look when I offer to make a PA (Heck, THAT"S not your job!) I mean comeon, how hard is it to make one. But since most f/os here don't offer, (or captains for that matter), it throws them for a loop. Whatever, I still do it, more for my own training than anything else.