Question for Piston freight dogs

[Steve]

How many flights do you cancel because of weather on a average month?

 

[freighterguy]

you probably shouldn't even consider being a freight dog if you have to ask that question.

sounds to me like you're wussing out already.

FG

 

[MVSW]

How many flights do you cancel because of weather on a average month?

I don't know but, I hear hardly EVER!!

 

[freighterguy]

MVSW:

do yourself a favor and get off the cargo board.

obvioulsy, you never flew freight and opted instead to come straight out of that flight school with 500TT and jerk gear at a regional.

dumb a$$.

FG

 

[exchexflyer]

How many flights do you cancel because of weather on a average month?

I flew freight for two years totally over 2000 hours. There was not one flight that was canceled for weather. If weather freaks you out, don't fly freight. On the other hand, if weather freaks you out, don't fly at all!

 

[Steve]

you probably shouldn't even consider being a freight dog if you have to ask that question.

sounds to me like you're wussing out already.

FG

Sh*t,

A guy asks a honest question and all of a sudden I'm a wuss? Let me guess, you got beat up in highschool a lot.

 

[Freight Dog]

How many flights do you cancel because of weather on a average month?

Steve, this is a rough crowd here.

Let me put it this way - if it's legal weather, you're going to launch.

Now we all know legal doesn't necessarily mean safe, and what the most operators will expect from you is to launch and take a look. If you don't feel comfortable pressing on, you come back or divert - at least you tried, and that's it. No questions asked...

This is where you'll gain true PIC experience, and I'll tell you, it was the best and the most fun flying I've done in my career.

 

[hydroflyer]

Closest I've seen a route to getting cancelled due to weather, is having it modified when hurricanes hit and close the airports. Otherwise, if it is open, you go.

 

[freighterguy]

Freight Dog:

I am not minding my manners these days, for that I am sorry. It miffs me how someone who sweats wx would even consider a career in flying. I remember listening to you over the radio, on a dark lonely night, in the middle of the desert, near the London Bridge flying freight simply because it was a means to a better end. (Sorry about the run on sentence)

Steve:

Like I said...

FG

 

[paulsalem]

FG,

You've never once wished you had the night off when you learn your about to launch into an area with severe icing?

Never chosen the wrong path around a thunderstorm, wished you had taken a different route?

Never scared yourself, not even once, while flying?

 

[freighterguy]

flew for a part 135 carrier for 6 years, accumulated over 3500hrs flight time, mostly at night, and mostly single pilot.

do the math CFI boy.

you should join your friend Steve at Eagle. i bet you would look hott in some aviator shades.

FG

 

[paulsalem]

FG,

Please, don't get defensive, I was just trying to say low time pilots like Steve, and I haven't been exposed to the type of flying you (as a still moderatly low time pilot) have accumulated over the past 6+ years.

And since I instruct (and I apologize to you for that, sir) I am exposed to mostly people of my experience or lower, not a situation conducive to learning about flying freight.

So we post questions on this message board hoping to get some good insight by people have done it. Unfortunalty, I (probably Steve too) have to think twice about asking a question, and opening ourselves up to the assult of the slightly more expierced out there, who decide to critisize and belittle us for our honest quetions.

FG, how is a better way Steve and I could have gone about learning more about freight flying? Maybe a way that would have resulted in honest answers without the personal attacks?

 

[freighterguy]

steve and paul, I am sorry.

i need three takeoffs and landings in a single engine because I want to take my g/f flying.

think you guys can help me out?

FG

 

[paulsalem]

FG, your apology is accepted, no hard feelings.

And yea, I'll help out, you'll need 3 take offs and landings (can be touch and goes, as long as its not a tail wheel). They can be anytime, if you want to take her up at night they'll need to be 1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise and they all have to be full stops (even in a tricycle gear)

Here is a link to determine sunset time for you location.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html

Freight Dog, hydroflyer,exchxflyer and the others, thank for the helpful replies.

 

[Humble-Pielot]

Mythical Wx

Freight Dog is right fellas...I have been flying with a large freight operator for almost a year, and you will never see an off night because of weather. Companies will always look at the legal aspect of the weather and you must at least attempt a run at it. However, YOU are the PIC and may choose to cancel the flight, but, as you soon learn, most severe weather passes in due time and isn't always as bad as it looks on radar.

Take Florida this time of year for example. As pilots in training and CFI's, most of us look at the radar around 14:00 and don't even think twice about a long X-C. After a few weeks (maybe days, depending upon luck) you will learn that most weather is circumnavigable. Freight flying is a tough business. Anyone who operates here will tell you, myself included. But, just as with any other aspect of commercial aviation, you will have to deal with Wx. Whether its 500 pounds of checks and lab work, 500 or 5 passengers, that you haul...we all fly through the same garbage.

As for everyone jamming each other up on this board, you have to learn to take everything with a grain of salt. I actually find it humourous to read some of the replies... Don't be afraid to ask questions, but do expect to get some pretty harsh feedback from somebody. No matter what the post, someone is looking to slam you, so just expect it.

 

[Big Dog]

Zero.

 

[mar]

Real world freight flying and a little perspective

Yeah, I love all the chest thumping. It's hilarious.

First of all, no one would expect the FNG to go out at night and tackle the same weather that a guy with six years experience and 3500 hours can handle.

Not only that (and I've said this before) I used to take it pretty easy on my first day back to work after two weeks off. But I'll tell you what, after I was at work for a week I was out there doing the Dew, know what I mean?

Just 'cause I've got some time to kill I'll tell you a short story:

I started flying 135 in single engine planes VFR only, Class G airspace, wx mins 500 and two.

I'd occasionally have to navigate a mountain pass (in Alaska) with a full load, marginal wx on both ends, gusty winds, whiteout, blah, blah, blah...

When I first started, the more experienced guys told me to fly the passes low even when the weather is clear and a million because the passes look different when you go through them at 500 feet vs. 1000 feet.

So I'd simulate scud running when the weather was great. I'd pick my escape routes. I'd swing 180s to see how much room I needed, etc, etc, etc...

And then I'd set a personal minimum: I wouldn't tackle a certain pass lower than, say, 800 feet if the weather was crappy.

When you're flying a Navajo at night, IFR, over a mountain range it's the same thing. When the weather is good you take a lay of the land and check things out. You tell yourself: If I'm heavy and iced up and loose an engine which way would I turn? Or do I press on?

Here's a short CRM lesson: Psychologists have discovered that experienced pilots discern certain factors in a pattern in the same way that expert chess players can "see" certain moves in a pattern.

I hope I'm being clear enough.

What I'm trying to say is that with "experience" you'll be able to think a few "moves" ahead in the game. "Been there, done that" becomes more of a critical philosophy.

The Chinese call it Tao--"The Way."

To Buddhists it's Zen.

To me, it's called "payin' yer dues."

To the company it's a big pain the butt but it's the cost of doing business now get out there and FLY goddammit!!!!!

Just kidding.
Good luck.

 

[Nolife]

Wx

I’ve cancelled two flights in three years of freight hauling. Both times I didn't feel like flying through a huge pre-cold front line of storms. One A/C with radar and one without.


Flown through those type of lines before enough times to know that it wasn't fun and screw the company if they didn't like it. Nothing was ever said, at least to me, although my company mailbox had a picture of a vagina on it for a few days after the second time.



I've delayed a few waiting for mins or an alternate to come up but generally you should go take a look and if you don't like what you see... close your eyes.

 

[Caboclo]

If it's legal, you go. The only time I've ever completely cancelled the flight was one morning a couple months back when DEN was fogged in. 1000 RVR and stayed there for 3 hours, we were all running out of duty time, so the boss sent us home. Otherwise, you'll go and hold over the destination till the wx comes up, or take the stuff to an alternate, or go to your 2nd destination first and then try the first one, or fly 100 miles around the thunderstorm... You have to have the attitude of finding a safe and legal way to do it, rather than just giving up. Real life wx isn't usually as bad as they tell you in flight school, there are very, very few times when you have absolutely no options.

 

[flagshipper]

Caboclo is pretty much right. If it is legal you find some way to go or try different alternatives until something works. I have never cancelled but only delayed because severe weather changes alot over a few hours

 

[petergibbins]

i've had one whole day cancelled, but company cancelled due to hurricane ivan. other than that, none.

 

[kingaira90]

none. Had to delay a couple of times till the forcast was above the mins in the company opspecs.



Petergibbins. That scene in your avatar is one of my all time favorite movie scenes. Office Space is a great movie, has an extra punch if you spent some time in a crappy cubicle somewhere.-kingaira90

 

[SkyRat]

Had to delay a few times until the storm passed so they would feul our plane, had to divert many times, had to land in front of the squall line untill it passed then continued, but I don't recall ever having to completely cancel in the last 6+ years. There's almost always a way to get the job done eventually.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Sounds like a blast my time is comming!!

 

[icefr8dawg]

Never, ever, ever. Had partys over the marker for hours with the other frieght guys after all the airlines left to divert. Helped that we had liberal interpretations with our POI

 

[MVSW]

MVSW:

do yourself a favor and get off the cargo board.

obvioulsy, you never flew freight and opted instead to come straight out of that flight school with 500TT and jerk gear at a regional.

dumb a$$.

FG

Why would you say "do yourself a favor and get off the cargo board"? SO your saying since that I didn't fly cargo that I can't read the cargo board? I get on flightinfo to talk to fellow pilots and give my advice and recieve advice from everybody. Thats like saying the only board that you can read is the cargo board. For you information, I left my university with 1100 TT and got a corporate job flying a baron and C206. After that, I left to go to a regional with 1500TT. And you obviously don't know anything about regionals. FO's don't just "jerk gear". If we have 4 legs in a day, I have 2 legs and the CA has 2 legs. When I'am the PNF, I "jerk gear" and press buttons. When I'am flying the CA "jerks gear" and presses buttons. FO's at regionals dont just "jerk gear" they have legs that they fly. So why did you call me a dumba$$ again??

 

[TonyC]

When I'am flying the CA "jerks gear" and presses buttons. FO's at regionals dont just "jerk gear" they have legs that they fly. So why did you call me a dumba$$ again??

Not to bust your chops, but to offer food for thought:

When the Captain's jerkin' gear for ya, who's loggin' turbine PIC?







.

 

[paulsalem]

Not to bust your chops, but to offer food for thought:

When the Captain's jerkin' gear for ya, who's loggin' turbine PIC?

The same person that is loging turbine PIC in a LJ hauling freight.

 

[MVSW]

Not to bust your chops, but to offer food for thought:

When the Captain's jerkin' gear for ya, who's loggin' turbine PIC?







.

My point is that FO's dont just "jerk gear". Both the pilots fly thier legs. But you right.

 

[flyinlow67]

I've had to cancel a couple, but not many. Actually, the bank cancelled them for us and decided to drive the checks when we had to wait an hour or two for T-storms to pass. They get picky about a couple of million in checks in the back...go figure.
I can honestly say I have flown many more 200 & a 1/2 approaches and landed with enough ice to make Frosty the Snowman horny than I have cancelled flights.