Question for PCL128 and Rez O Lewshun....

[PCL_128]

Your argument was that

"It's logistically impossible to deport all of the illegals"

That is true, but is logically impossible to arrest or stop any illegal activity... that doesn't stop us from pursuing any other illegal activity... for some reason, illegal invadors get a free pass....

It is possible to deter certain crimes with fines, jail time, etc... It is not possible to deter illegal immigration by trying to deport illegals. Therefore, deporting illegals is useless.

Cop out argument... The AFL-CIO stands to benefit by organizing these illegal aliens.... Everyone realizes that....

No, they don't. A constant flood of illegals drives down wages. If they replace current blue collar workers at lower wages, it doesn't matter if you organize them because the dues revenue goes down.

The harm it does is that alienates the conservative members of ALPA and other unions.... In terms of ALPA, conservatives are the majority.... Supporting illiegal aliens and Hillary Clinton won't exactly get the PAC contributions flowing.... but keep on defending it and complaining about why ALPA pilots don't contribute.... you just don't see the disconnect.... much like the union leadership....

ALPA-PAC is in no way related to the AFL-CIO. ALPA-PAC only gets involved in issues that directly affect pilots.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It is possible to deter certain crimes with fines, jail time, etc... It is not possible to deter illegal immigration by trying to deport illegals. Therefore, deporting illegals is useless.

So it's useless to deport any illegals? What about the cost of those illegals? What if an illegal goes to the emergency room? Who pays for that? Sorry, but you are sounding more like a liberal...

No, they don't. A constant flood of illegals drives down wages. If they replace current blue collar workers at lower wages, it doesn't matter if you organize them because the dues revenue goes down.

Then why is the AFL-CIO supporting illegal aliens and amnesty? Even some of your cohorts admit that unions are business's.... why is that so hard for you to admit.....

ALPA-PAC is in no way related to the AFL-CIO. ALPA-PAC only gets involved in issues that directly affect pilots.

Continue to tell yourself that, and continue to wonder why ALPA members shun the PAC.... ALPA supports the AFL-CIO and vice versa.... both are liberal organizations politically..... most ALPA members are conservatives.... the disconnect will continue.... so deal with it....

 

[PCL_128]

So it's useless to deport any illegals? What about the cost of those illegals? What if an illegal goes to the emergency room? Who pays for that? Sorry, but you are sounding more like a liberal...

It's useless because the guy will just cross the border again and you'll end up not only paying for his medical bills and other costs, but you'll end up paying to deport the guy time after time. It might make sense to deport them after the border is secured, but even then the cost would be astronomical to try to find and deport millions upon millions of these people.

Then why is the AFL-CIO supporting illegal aliens and amnesty?

You'd have to ask the AFL-CIO. The policy is self-defeating as far as I'm concerned. Amnesty without secure borders is a recipe for lower dues revenue and a further diminished labor movement.

Continue to tell yourself that, and continue to wonder why ALPA members shun the PAC.... ALPA supports the AFL-CIO and vice versa.... both are liberal organizations politically..... most ALPA members are conservatives.... the disconnect will continue.... so deal with it....

I agree with some of what you're saying. I've talked with various ALPA reps and staffers about this, and I've always maintained that officially endorsing liberal candidates is a faulty policy for ALPA. ALPA should let the PAC focus on contributions to pro-pilot candidates and forget endorsements that turn off conservative members.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It's useless because the guy will just cross the border again and you'll end up not only paying for his medical bills and other costs, but you'll end up paying to deport the guy time after time. It might make sense to deport them after the border is secured, but even then the cost would be astronomical to try to find and deport millions upon millions of these people.



You'd have to ask the AFL-CIO. The policy is self-defeating as far as I'm concerned. Amnesty without secure borders is a recipe for lower dues revenue and a further diminished labor movement.



I agree with some of what you're saying. I've talked with various ALPA reps and staffers about this, and I've always maintained that officially endorsing liberal candidates is a faulty policy for ALPA. ALPA should let the PAC focus on contributions to pro-pilot candidates and forget endorsements that turn off conservative members.

I'm going to end it here.... we mostly agree on this...

As far as deportation, I would combine it with stronger border security.... It's not an either/or situation...

Strengthen the boarder, with troops, and send the illegals back home.....

On the rest we agree....:beer:

 

[N2264J]

Re: Question for PCL128 and Rez O Lewshun...

If this country can't enforce it's borders and it's laws, then we need to find leaders who can...

That's not going to happen because big business relies on the non-union, cheap, seasonal labor they get form Mexico to do the back breaking, low paying jobs Americans refuse to do and the corporations fund both parties enough to keep the border patrol looking the other way.

Think about it: this is always a "poor brown people" problem while the conservative business tycoons who hire them are seldom, if ever, held accountable.

So tell me, you want to pay $9.00 for a quart of strawberries?

 

[FDJ2]

I thought you were done..... I agree that troops should be on the border, but you liberals (including the unions) don't want that....

George has our troops busy in Iraq. Our Republican president, with his Republican House and Senate did nothing for 6 years. So you can blame the do nothing Republicans for the fiasco on our borders.

Let's put troops on the border and enforce our immigration laws.... including deporting those who are here illegally.....

I'd take it a step further, how about prosecuting the US citizens who are hiring these workers to begin with. It's our addiction to cheap and exploitable labor that fuels illegal immigration.

Who can blame a labor union that sees exploited workers and tries to help and organize them. It's George Bush's job to protect our borders, it's the AFL-CIO's job to organize labor and prevent the exploitation of workers.

 

[FDJ2]

That's not going to happen because big business relies on the non-union, cheap, seasonal labor they get form Mexico to do the back breaking, low paying jobs Americans refuse to do and the corporations fund both parties enough to keep the border patrol looking the other way.

Think about it: this is always a "poor brown people" problem while the conservative business tycoons who hire them are seldom, if ever, held accountable.

So tell me, you want to pay $9.00 for a quart of strawberries?

Wow! Mark the date and time, I agree completely.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It is not just a national issue, but a global issue....

With products made overseas for the US ecomony, global slavery is alive and well. We can turn a blind eye to it and make general statements like, "a rising tide lifts all boats" but say that to the 16 year old that works 15 hours days and sells sex at night so we can have competitive prices at the shopping mall...

Slavery? that is right... not low wages that feels like slavery... but real slavery.... If it was wrong in the US 150 years ago, what makes it right today.

back to your double latte, soy, half whipped, frappacinno....

 

[PCL_128]

If it was wrong in the US 150 years ago, what makes it right today.

Because it's not happening right in front of people's eyes here in America, so they can conveniently forget about it and pretend it isn't happening.

 

[JoeMerchant]

What's the employee cost difference per car between US Auto makers and Japanese Auto makers? How many ALPA and AFL-CIO cheerleaders own Japanese cars and shop at WalMart? Pot meet Kettle......

 

[PCL_128]

How many ALPA and AFL-CIO cheerleaders own Japanese cars and shop at WalMart? Pot meet Kettle......

Not this one. I own an American-made car built by UAW workers and I haven't shopped at WalMart in about 6 years. I won't even use the self-checkout line at the grocery store because it takes jobs away from cashiers.

 

[Morning Wood]

Not this one. I own an American-made car built by UAW workers and I haven't shopped at WalMart in about 6 years. I won't even use the self-checkout line at the grocery store because it takes jobs away from cashiers.

Wow. Do you also boycott self-serv gas stations and ATM's?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not this one. I own an American-made car built by UAW workers and I haven't shopped at WalMart in about 6 years. I won't even use the self-checkout line at the grocery store because it takes jobs away from cashiers.

I rejected Wal Mart in 2002. My truck is bbuilt by UAW workers...

Wow. Do you also boycott self-serv gas stations and ATM's?

Full Serve pumps... (can you find one outside of NJ?) and Bank tellers are not unionized labor.... are they?

 

[Morning Wood]

Full Serve pumps... (can you find one outside of NJ?) and Bank tellers are not unionized labor.... are they?

PCL didn't say he was protecting union jobs, just jobs. Although I guess I should have known that he meant union labor. Are all the products at the same grocery store (whose employees I assume are all union or he wouldn't stop there) made or grown by union labor in the USA?

Oregon has a similar gas law dating back nearly 70 years about no self-service . I don't know if the gas station employees are union, but that isn't why those laws were enacted in the first place. There are other states with full-service stations if you dig around and find them. If union members aren't taking the time to find them and give their patronage, they aren't doing all they can to protect jobs.