Question for Navy guys...#1?

[Erk183]

I'm a new user and I've read a lot here. Here is my question. I plan to apply for an SNA slot to be a pilot in the Navy. ( I'm only a freshman now) Assuming I could get a spot through OCS, it seems that being the #1 guy through the phases of flight training is obviously the sure-fire way to getting the pipeline and airframe you want. I'm curious as to what that takes. Is the number one guy the one the one who works the hardest? (puts the most effort, studies procedures, making sure he is the most prepared he can possibly be given the resources), or is it the guy with natural skill... or most flight experience, kisses the most butt? It would be nice to know that a smart, motivated individual can use determination to get that top spot even if he/she doesnt have a zillion flight hours in the civillian world. Thanks.

 

[T1bubba]

Erk183,

Sorry if it sounds like a smart-a$$ answer, but the only way to be #1 is to do better than everyone else who selects that week. How good you have to be depends completely on who you're competing against. Plenty of zero-hour folks have been #1, so it's certainly possible. But experience does usually (but not always) help.

Don't forget that you're going to be competing against a couple dozen other smart, motivated, and determined individuals who are also going to be doing everything they can to get what they want.

Anyway, it may be a little early to be worrying about your class rank when you don't have a flight slot yet. Keep your grades up now, get flight time if you can afford it, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Craven Morehead]

Erk 183,

I'm a pilot of average (at best) hand-eye coordination and speed, yet I finished number one in my classes during all major phases of military flight training. All the stuff you mentioned about working hardest doesn't hurt. Prior flight time helps. A good, open attitude with all of my instructors and above average situational awareness were probably the biggest contributors to my success in the program. Good luck!

Craven

 

[MercuryPilot]

What it takes to do well in Navy primary

I train the Navy primary/intermediate SNAs everyday so I can tell you from experience that studying will set you apart from your peers. It's obvious which SNAs have prepared for their briefs/flights and which ones have not. It really makes a difference if you get into the a/c prepared. The harder you work the easier it'll be and the better you will do.

SNAs w/prior flight experience DO NOT always do better than those who have never been at the controls. In fact, many of them will bring bad habits to the table. The T-34C is a lot different and a lot more powerful than anything they have flown. Inorder to offset some of the advantages those SNAs might have the Navy is currently offering (maybe even requiring) that prior to API the SNAs get ~25hours in a Cessna on the Navy's nickel when they get to Pensacola. This should level the playing field a bit.

Anyone who has ever been to flight school in Pensacola or Corpus Christi will tell you that there are a lot of distractions (girls, parties, surfing, more girls and more partying). If you can focus on what you are doing your grades will be fine. There are some factors beyond your control which affect your pipeline like "needs of the Navy." Some weeks there just aren't any slots for E-6, Jets, or P-3s and guys end of selecting E-2/C-2 or Helos. In other words, something they didn't personally want. There were several weeks in September 2002 where EVERY SNA who selected got Helos. It's very random although some folks attribute it to end of FY $$$ issues.

Continue to study hard now to get that pilot slot. See if you can get a WRITTEN contract that gaurantees you that pilot slot after completion of OCS or ROTC. If you don't want to do something else in the Navy you may also want to have it in WRITING that if for some reason you are not physically qualified to fly they will let you out of the deal. Maybe you could then go talk to the AF/Army and see if you meet their minimums if you still wanted to fly for the military.

Best of luck.

 

[usmc33]

I agree with MercuryPilot, study and know the brief items before you brief with your instructor pilot. Stay motivated to learn and show that motivation and it'll be noticed. Navy/Marine/Coast Guard flight training is much different than AF flight training. In the sea services, the instructors expect you to pretty much teach yourselves the academics and they'll teach you what you need to know in the plane if you show you need it, otherwise they're observers in the backseat letting you show your stuff. I've also flown with the AF and their method is different, everything was spoon-fed to you academically.

For now, do well in school and stay sharp, and don't get a darned DUI.

usmc33

 

[pilotyip]

Army

Don't forget the Army aviation, we have a bunch of ex-Army guys flying for us and they are all great guys. And roto wing training in advanced helos is great for anything you fly in the future.

 

[ChichiAV8B]

Im currently a T-2 instructor. Definitely agree with all the other guys on grades, motivation and staying out of trouble. I did have 250 hours of civilian flight time, and it definitely help me in flight school. There comes a point when all your peers, regardless of your flight time will start catching up with you. This usually happens when you go from props to jets. I initally thought I knew how to fly, but quickly learned there is much more to learn and the training standards were higher since I would be expected to go land a jet on an aircraft carrier solo on the first time. The key, regardless of how many hours you show up with, is to remain trainable, and don't show up thinking you know everything. ATTITUDE plays a key role. TACAIR is the best flying you will ever do.

 

[luck4unme]

Pilotyip,

11,550 hours? Wow! Guees you can post anytime to "been there, done that."

 

[X727FO]

I agree with Mercury . . .

Having been an instructor also here is my two cents of advice on doing better that 75% of the other SNAs:

1. Show up to the brief prepared. It will set the tone for the rest of the day.

2. Act like you actually want to learn something, not like you already know it all and have to beat me at my own game.

3. Don't tell a former Helo/E-2/P-3 instructor pilot that you are only interested in flying TACAIR and if you don't get jets you will probably DOR and get out of the NAV as soon as possible (Hard to believe, but I 've seen it).

Finally, if you absolutely do not want to fly helos or E-2s, try your best not to finish primary in September.

 

[Hope53]

ERK 183,

I am not a "Navy" guy, but I work for one (a few actually) in the Navy Training Command. I would say everything said about study/prep for flights and the advice from the IPs/former IPs is right on. With that being said having alot of flight time in Primary training is going to help you. Chichi8V8B is right on. I flew a flight with a primary stud who had 1600 hours and he flew like he had 1600 hours. I have also seen cases of 700-1000 hour guys attriting from the strike pipeline. So what I am trying to say is just having a private license and a few hours isn't going to make a difference. Going out and getting a couple hundred will help get you in the Strike pipeline, but not through it.

Send me a PM and I can give you real answers as to why those guys in September get Helos (nothing to do with FY money) as well as any other questions you might have.

The 25 hour civilian training thing is for real and will be in full production by the time you might head to flight school. The primary curriculum is changing as well, pushing back selection to the end of what is now Intermediates for the multi-engine and helo studs. This will further level the playing field for those with and without prior flight time.

As you look at the Navy as your flight option remember that only 20(ish) percent of the "winged" aviators each year are flying TACAIR.
Best of luck, Hope

 

[Abe_Froman]

What, no more video games?

Stop me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a move within midshipman or aviation training circles to get those middies or ensigns heading off to pilot training to "practice" their flying skills on a computer flight simulator? I heard that because some guy who did well in training attributed his success to MS Flight Sim (or was it Top Gun, the video game?) the Navy went and put some computers in the NROTC battalions specifically for that purpose.

I dunno. A former roommate of mine that was in NROTC told me that a couple of years ago.

Finally, Hope53, you mentioned getting the young sailor-aviators 25 civilian hours before API (?). Is there any talk of paying for 50 hrs and/or a PPL like the AF? Is it in the future, or how does the Navy feel about it?

Just curious.

 

[Hope53]

Abe,
No PPL, just 25 hours with a civilian flight instructor. I've heard various rumors on why just 25 hours vice a PPL like the Air Force but nothing I can confirm.

The flight sim thing is true. It is called MicroSim. These were sim boxes with a huge monitor, stick, rudder pedals, throttles and switches running a modified version of MS Flight Simulator. Pretty cool to play video games on but only kind of useful for students to improve there flying skills. The whole program grew out of control and is now trying to be restructured.

 

[Abe_Froman]

Ahh yes, MicroSims...

Hope53...

As a product of NAS CC (advanced phase), I have seen (at least their version of) the MicroSims. They were part of the building tour on our first day in academics, but I can honestly say I never used them in all my time there.

If only they could combine the MicroSim vis with the 0/0 conditions and motion sense of the Star-Tours--er, T-44 simulator.
Come to think of it, ANY picture to go along with the simulator would be nice.

When I asked one day why the Navy didn't spend the money to put vis into the sims like the AF did on their trainers, the instructor settled into a pleasant 10 minute diatribe on distributing the funding to the 3 parts of his service ("so you've got the guys that go over the water, the guys that go under the water, and the guys that are ON the water...", he said).

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Wolf King]

Hey, Patmack!

Good to see you are still alive. Pretty good... still posting during OCS. I went through in 91 (AOCS), won't revisit the old "I had it harder than you" argument. I'm sure it's still no fun, hang in there!

BTW that's a great attitude you've got there, and it will keep you sane. At the end of the day all that matters are the guys around you anyway.

 

[Wolf King]

Hang in there,

I still remember those watches as being one of the most depressing periods of my life around 0200! It gets much better.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

heck, nowadays you can get laid on midwatch......and with a real girl!

 

[kelleyadai]

If you guys want to know more about the program hope is talking about it, I posted it under "IFS"

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

uhhh...are you telling me there are no women at OCS?

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Sounds like a pretty high butch-factor in your company...it happens. Oh well, get that liberty and go find ya some Seville or Floribama trash.

 

[hogdriver00]

AOCS

Pat,
Glad to see you made it. Good luck.

Hog