Question for JetBlue guys

[717capt]

Hey guys I have a question that may or may not have been answered before. Notwithstanding the results of the vote, but why did you guys decide to go with an in house union -vs- going with ALPA or teamsters? In a few weeks we are going to have a vote here at Airtran to possibly vote out the in-house union and go ALPA. Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Fracster]

ALPA doesn't care about the little guy. ALPA will not spend the resources necessary to help our or your pilot to the extent needed. In short the return from your dues does not out weight what they will need to spend.
Don't get me wrong you will get support but not the same level as a legacy carrier. Also, with over four hundred former ALPA pilots on property a vote for ALPA was unlikely.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Despite what Fracster says, the B6 pilots who tried to organize were smart enough to realize there were a LARGE percentage of pilots on the property who were furloughed ALPA pilots.

Those guys generally blame ALPA and not their old Companies for their furlough. As a result, attempting to get ALPA on the property would have resulted in an even greater defeat than JBPA suffered.

It was probably a wise decision due to the unfounded bitterness toward ALPA some B6 pilots feel.

 

[FBN0223]

An in-house union would have been the way to go. Representation, in some form however, is imperative. Hopefully, the pilots and Jetblue will have another shot soon.

 

[Citjok]

Hey guys I have a question that may or may not have been answered before. Notwithstanding the results of the vote, but why did you guys decide to go with an in house union -vs- going with ALPA or teamsters? In a few weeks we are going to have a vote here at Airtran to possibly vote out the in-house union and go ALPA. Just curious. Thanks.

I think JB pilots voted for no union at all.

 

[gutshotdraw]

An in-house union would have been the way to go. Representation, in some form however, is imperative. Hopefully, the pilots and Jetblue will have another shot soon.

They will shortly after the President signs the woefully misnamed "Employee Free Choice Act" where you only have to have 50% +1 sign cards instead of a secret ballot election.

"Hey, you want to have a union, don't you? Don't you? C'mon, don't you? Sign right here."

I'm not disputing the issue of whether Jetblue needs a union. Only saying it's a matter of time.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Those guys generally blame ALPA and not their old Companies for their furlough.

I have a stupid question, but how can someone blame their union because the company had to furlough them?

 

[DYLIN]

I have a stupid question, but how can someone blame their union because the company had to furlough them?

Because they're stupid.

(seriously -- I don't know where we get these morons)

 

[Dogwood]

I have a stupid question, but how can someone blame their union because the company had to furlough them?

They blame the union when there is a furlough, and ALPA did nothing to fight it.

Same goes for the pension issues. US Airways gave away the pension, and ALPA allowed them to do it with very little fight or trade off. Suddenly the company was making profits and buying aircraft.

Nobody is blaming the union for action of the company, but rather for rolling over when we needed them the most.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Read Dogwood and there's the answer. He's blaming ALPA National when he should be blaming the AAA MEC. Seems misplaced to me, because National only advises MECs on what they should and/or should not do. National has no power to MAKE an MEC do anything unless their actions are so aggregious that National actually has to come in and take over.

 

[B6Busdriver]

They blame the union when there is a furlough, and ALPA did nothing to fight it.

Same goes for the pension issues. US Airways gave away the pension, and ALPA allowed them to do it with very little fight or trade off. Suddenly the company was making profits and buying aircraft.

Nobody is blaming the union for action of the company, but rather for rolling over when we needed them the most.

Anyone that thinks a union will protect you fully during bankruptcy or after (God forbid) some terrorist flies an airplane into a building is kidding themselves. That said the committee structure at B6 is broken and is doomed to fail out of the gate. How many times to we have to repeat the process before some will learn?

 

[PCL_128]

They will shortly after the President signs the woefully misnamed "Employee Free Choice Act" where you only have to have 50% +1 sign cards instead of a secret ballot election.

The EFCA doesn't apply to RLA carriers, only to industries that fall under the NLRA.

Hopefully it will pass, and then later we can get it applied to RLA carriers also.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hopefully it will pass? So coercion and strong arm tactics can dominate a workplace? I have no problem with workers VOTING to organize their place of employment. But a secret ballot is still every American's right whether to elect a President or to unionize. That should not change regardless of whether you believe in unions.

 

[Splert]

When a JetBlue pilot spends the time to read AirTran's current contract and the TA that was rejected they would ...

Nevermind a JetBlue pilot would never do that they would let managment read it to them.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hopefully it will pass? So coercion and strong arm tactics can dominate a workplace? I have no problem with workers VOTING to organize their place of employment. But a secret ballot is still every American's right whether to elect a President or to unionize. That should not change regardless of whether you believe in unions.

What about the BoBs?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Not familiar with the reference....

 

[PCL_128]

Hopefully it will pass? So coercion and strong arm tactics can dominate a workplace?

Coercion and strong arm tactics already dominate the workplace....from management. The Band of Bluejuice (BoB) is a perfect example with their damned list of JBPA supporters. Nothing more than a thinly veiled threat. Yet you seem ok with that.

There's nothing wrong with using "card check." Everyone still gets to make their own choice, and all intimidation is outlawed by the EFCA.

 

[gutshotdraw]

It's not a choice when a union organizer is in your face asking (telling) you to sign a card. It is far easier for a union organizer to make a legal case against the company for intimidation than it is for an employee to protest a threat from a unionizer. Ask the five guys from Flight Options how much they collected in their civil case. I've flown with one of them.

This is not about the merits of a union (BTW I'm married to an ALPA member and will be paying union dues myself in the not-too-distant future). This is about whether the choice for either side is made in private by the employee. There is plenty wrong with card check.

 

[PCL_128]

It's not a choice when a union organizer is in your face asking (telling) you to sign a card.

Why? You don't have the balls to say "no?"

It is far easier for a union organizer to make a legal case against the company for intimidation

Actually, it's pretty much impossible. You can thank the Republicans for that anti-labor nonsense.

There is plenty wrong with card check.

Not really. But you'd better get used to it, anyway, because it's on the way. (thankfully)

 

[Browntothebone]

The airline with the best contract, best pay, best retirement, best job security, best QOL and best fleet has an inhouse union. That should tell you something right there.

 

[FNG320]

Hey guys I have a question that may or may not have been answered before. Notwithstanding the results of the vote, but why did you guys decide to go with an in house union -vs- going with ALPA or teamsters? In a few weeks we are going to have a vote here at Airtran to possibly vote out the in-house union and go ALPA. Just curious. Thanks.

The real problem in organizing at JetBlue is the fact that we have a large number of pilots that feel they were abused, cheated, lied to by ALPA. There is so much scar tissue in our pilot group it makes it hard to organize an in-house (ref current vote), let alone ALPA.

We have a signficiant number of former/furloughed USAir pilots who feel the ALPA integration screwed them. We have many other pilots that were furloughed by United, NWA, Delta, et al and almost all feel that they were screwed/let down by their unions. We have a large number of pilots from regional carriers that feel they were not fairly treated by ALPA or used as a bargaining chip when the majors were negotiating new contracts. They feel that they were treated as "2nd Class Citizens. We have pilots that never saw any good from their previous carrier's union over the last 3-5-7 years (mainly ALPA) to the point they would rather trust/hope/pray that JetBlue management will do better.

Thus, the first/best chance to organize at JetBlue was to do it inhouse. Take into account above, but then throw in the spin and lies from management and the anti-union pilots and you get what we have at JetBlue.

While ALPA has problems, it is respected and feared by airline managments. They also come with a large support staff and lots of $$$$$. Maybe you can get something done. Good luck with your vote.

Just my opinion......

FNG