Question for GuppyWn re: Delta

[waveflyer]

General- will you run downstairs and grab a stroller for a pax? Will you pass out snacks nonreving? Push wheelchairs? Help clean up when it would help? Take the time to help a pax to their gate when you're off? Will you take the lead or just fill a seat?

Keep eating your ice cream- I want you the way you are.

 

[ASADFW7]

waveflyer I agree, that the actions of the employees make a big difference.

 

[General Lee]

General- will you run downstairs and grab a stroller for a pax? Will you pass out snacks nonreving? Push wheelchairs? Help clean up when it would help? Take the time to help a pax to their gate when you're off? Will you take the lead or just fill a seat?

Keep eating your ice cream- I want you the way you are.

I do that all the time in the States. Overseas, ground people sometimes take offense if you do that, since they still enjoy their jobs over there.

Now, passing out snacks while nonrevving---NO. JB guys clean cabins between flights, but I don't do that either. I will help where I can, but I don't do every job out there. I try to give people a smooth and safe flight, and eat ice cream over Greenland at the same time.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

waveflyer I agree, that the actions of the employees make a big difference.

Do you help fuel the plane too? What about catering? Do you get on their lift truck and go in there and help carry off large bins of drinks etc? How about lav dumping? Wear a face mask please.

Everyone can do more than is required, which is admirable. Doing a lot more and getting in people's way is another thing. Don't go overboard. Helping people at the gate find their way and getting a wheelchair or a stroller from below is about the most you can ask from a uniformed pilot. More than that, and even passengers will start wondering what is up.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I'll go a step further. Forget hedge fund takeover- think car accident. This job can go away at any time.

What doesn't is my integrity. I have an MBA, my family has a business that earns more for us than my career ever will- I have more aviation backups than most pilots I know. Those didn't grow on trees - it took effort and investment and working on days off when I'd rather not- but I don't have a victim mentality and the achievements keep me young. Apparently you don't know about this kind of life. Where taking responsibility for everything in your life actually sets you free- harder but better at every step.

As time marches on- I'll always evaluate things- but I will never say I HAD to
sellout- and will never put myself in a position where it seems I have no choices. It's just not true.

YOU didn't have to vote YES to sellout connection pilots, but you did. You didn't have to keep giving your expertise to mgmt that just wanted to line their pockets- but you did. You couldve been working on your off days to give yourself more options- but apparently you haven't. And mgmt knew you didn't and played you.

Bad things always happen when you're unwilling to walk away- and really bad things happen as soon as an opportunistic mgmt knows you're willing to sellout- you gave an inch- they took a mike, bc you didn't have the stones to live w/ integrity in the beginning. Now how many delta flights a day are done by pilots who have no contract with delta airlines.

Chase alluded to it. Business and life aren't set in stone- as long as our employees care more than yours- we'll compete well with you. Right now, from my chiefs to GK- I work for, and with, men and women who are fun as hell and deserve my best- they'll get it.
you're right - it's a long career and time will tell- but it'll be my choice and I don't run from that.

Good discussion Wave....seriously.....(almost too civilized for FI) but fill me in on the sellout of the connection pilots. Were you affected by said sellout? I'm not following you...

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

General- will you run downstairs and grab a stroller for a pax? Will you pass out snacks nonreving? Push wheelchairs? Help clean up when it would help? Take the time to help a pax to their gate when you're off? Will you take the lead or just fill a seat?

Keep eating your ice cream- I want you the way you are.

Please let me answer that....

-Delta always had pilots run down and get strollers now after the merger the Rampers union growls at us. (sad, actually).

-Pass out snacks? No, unless the stews are hot! (read: under 40 which is a tough find at my airline. Also, never when going to Europe, 2 full meals, F that noise!)

-Push wheelchairs.....Absolutely, except when late for the next plane.

-Clean Jets? NEVER!! That is degrading to this profession, period!! Hire some cleaners! JB was making it a culture thing over there and some people actually get guilted into it for a ride. That's a privilege yes, but not a requisite....Again, spiraling down to the bottom.

-Help to the gate? Always, I've never seen anybody at this company turn anyone away (except me in Kiev when a lady last month came up to me with her ticket yapping in Ukrainian, I just shrugged my shoulders....sorry k?)

Now about filling the seat. A company who takes care of their people will then take care OF the people. I am still very very angry and reluctant to lift fingers for this company after what we've been through the last 9 years alone. I am very distrustful of the company and their intentions. But when it comes to a passenger directly interacting with me or almost any other Delta guy, we always step up. That's somebody's Grandma or someone's wife traveling with 5 kids alone.....etc etc. They need our help.

 

[Tripower455]

To all reading this thread.....Gup and I have had some conversatons about this in PMs....

Delta WAS Southwest back in the day....We HAD picnics, we HAD a family attitude, we HAD the top pay.....All spilt milk, but we HAD it....

Not to mention that DAL was a DOMESTIC carrier until the late '80's, early '90's.

It takes a crappy manager to come in and prove his worth by cutting the core principles of your airline and what it means to the bottom line....It CAN happen to you at SWA. (Waveflyer....I'm talking to you!)

To point fingers and say "I'd never go to a legacy with their outsourcing...." etc etc. is laughable at best. You never know where this business will take you but you can guarantee one thing, when you are the top of the pile you WILL be replaced, it's Darwin.......so enjoy your high pay, live on the 737, and love your schedules.....it may all go away and then your life plan changes.......

Exactly..... If you told my dad in 1960, when he was hired at Pan Am, that he was gonna retire from Delta, he'd have laughed in your face, because DAL was nothing more than a regional at the time.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Not to mention that DAL was a DOMESTIC carrier until the late '80's, early '90's.




Exactly..... If you told my dad in 1960, when he was hired at Pan Am, that he was gonna retire from Delta, he'd have laughed in your face, because DAL was nothing more than a regional at the time.

Not really.....

Mostly Domestic in route structure but had some International.
Delta was the only airline to simulataneously run the widebodies (747, DC-10, L-1011) around the system.

 

[Tripower455]

Not really.....

Mostly Domestic in route structure but had some International.
Delta was the only airline to simulataneously run the widebodies (747, DC-10, L-1011) around the system.

The far international stuff didn't arrive until around the Pan Am era.

I agree that the similarities between old DAL and current SWA are frighteningly close.

 

[General Lee]

The far international stuff didn't arrive until around the Pan Am era.

I agree that the similarities between old DAL and current SWA are frighteningly close.

Incorrect, Delta had L1011s doing FRA, LGW, CDG, and others from ATL and other East Coast cites pre-Pan Am. I recall MCO to those cities too, since Delta was the "Official Airline" of Disney World at the time. (that went away due to cost cutting via Leo Mullin)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Incorrect, Delta had L1011s doing FRA, LGW, CDG, and others from ATL and other East Coast cites pre-Pan Am. I recall MCO to those cities too, since Delta was the "Official Airline" of Disney World at the time. (that went away due to cost cutting via Leo Mullin)


Bye Bye--General Lee

How long before Pan Am? A year or 2? Which would put it in the time frame of the late 80's, early 90's, like I said.

DAL was a largely (purely?) domestic carrier before that time.

Another similarity was that in the '70's, when everyone elses pay and QOL went in the crapper, DAL was the place everyone wanted to be. In spite of the domestic only flying.

My old man who was flying nothing but international, would've jumped at the chance to leave Pan Am for DAL, a large domestic carrier, 10-15 years before he got the chance.


As I said to Lumberg, the similarities are frightening......

 

[waveflyer]

Bill-
do you really not understand how outsourcing is a sellout to all involved including the mainline pilot- and ESPECIALLY the regional pilot?

I'll connect the dots for you again if you want- but I've done it a lot.
Virgin finds a slew of pilots in large part bc they have a large pool for whom it is a real step up. That's ALPA legacy pilots fault for not understanding the imications and failing to stop it.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Crystal clear Wave....

Your hard-on for ALPA comes shining through but still doesn't answer how that's the Legacy pilot's fault....

Should ALPA have said NO RJ's?? I believe so, but was it realistic when the likes of Valujet, Reno, Southwest and Kiwi were all undercutting the fares?

You ask me to give up my pay and my work rules to compete when the very same airline you are employed by was "competing" in the marketplace by offering NO Retirement, NO holding pay, crap wages, better productivity??? Your airline and your predecessors were a part of the problem.....don't lay it all in the lap of ALPA.

You are doing great now, but it was SWA who helped usher in the changes that all pilots ar biting on now!

 

[texman]

Do you help fuel the plane too? What about catering? Do you get on their lift truck and go in there and help carry off large bins of drinks etc? How about lav dumping? Wear a face mask please.

Everyone can do more than is required, which is admirable. Doing a lot more and getting in people's way is another thing. Don't go overboard. Helping people at the gate find their way and getting a wheelchair or a stroller from below is about the most you can ask from a uniformed pilot. More than that, and even passengers will start wondering what is up.


Bye Bye---General Lee

This is why all the retired delta pilots I flew with in the fracs couldn't think outside the box when it came to customer service, sometimes flying. LOL! I am just a pilot.LOL!

 

[waveflyer]

Are you really equating outsourcing with LCC's?
That was seriously ignorant. -