Question for GuppyWn re: Delta

[Cardinal]

But there isn't a single pilot out perusing this board that when they decided to go in to this career decided they were going to be an airline pilot and fly for SW (or DL or B9)

I most definitely didn't see myself flying for Air Bangladesh (B9.)

 

[filejw]

Absolutely my friend.

My PERSONAL quality of life meter is pretty simple. Make bank while you can and try to enjoy your job doing it. You must be able to do this in as few "do-overs" as you can.

Southwest is my 3rd airline after almost 10 years as a corporate pilot. When I got hired here I had also been hired by American AND Delta. The first class date was Southwest. By the time the American class date had come up I was almost on the line and realized how "fun" Southwest was. The major problem is the pay SUCKED! (relative to Mother D and American) I did the math and figured a 4 year upgrade here would have me making what I would at either of the other two and we'd "hopefully" have a decent contract by then anyway.

Well, educated guess and it has, to this date, paid off. Missed the 4 year upgrade by a couple but the pay swung up to where it is today.

As far as your question I'll reference my Quality of Life Meter. Make bank and go home. Delta is hiring, WN is not. One of my very best friends is almost dead last at WN. He has been on straight reserve and commuted across the country for 2 YEARS to do it. He has had his nuts slammed so many times I cannot count the ways. In other words, he has no life. He doesn't complain so I will do it for him.

If I were him and was looking at a 15 year upgrade, which he is, I would consider going elsewhere. Flying all over the world in the right seat of a 777 doesn't suck. Spending 15 years in the right seat of a 737 might. Nobody knows yet because we have never been "there" here at WN.

Listen bro. This isn't about PBS, codeshare, or RJ's. This is about quality of life and making cash to support your family in retirement. I have championed against every single one of those things but I will be honest. At the end of the day I do not fight these things for YOUR benefit, I fight them for MINE, which may help you too!

Do I love it at Southwest Airlines? HELL YES!!!! This is, without a single doubt, the best job I could have, FOR ME. I am a redneck goofball with a pretty laid back attitude and this joint fits me like a glove. All things being considered though, in todays market, you'd be a FOOL not to put a serious eye and pen to paper on a Delta career. It's a great airline. Take off the uniform and their guys are just as "cool" as our guys. (Unlike the United guys - but I digress! )

Be selfish in your career choices, do the math and take a swing. That's pretty much all I was saying.

Gup wouldn't leave Southwest for ANY carrier - today. If I were #5832 I'd at least do the math.

Gup

P.S. I'm not telling anyone to jump ship like we had Pre 9/11 here at WN! I'm simply explaining to you what would go into my decisions in todays environment.

This is a great post but in my 32 years not many of the folks i know that jumped ship have made out. Most end up with a parallel move, just an observation BTW..

 

[Full of LUV]

Well, educated guess and it has, to this date, paid off. Missed the 4 year upgrade by a couple but the pay swung up to where it is today.

Did the pay really swing up, or everyone else tumbled down below yours.....

 

[B727FA]

That last sentence is pretty funny.
That being said, this couldn't have been said through a PM?

Why do that? Simply to avoid looking like an a$$ in public? Why, it's the FI way...

 

[GuppyWN]

Did the pay really swing up, or everyone else tumbled down below yours.....

Both. We were the laughing stock of the industry for years because our pay was "dragging down the industry."

Then the best president to ever take the oath at SWAPA hit town and got us unimaginable, for "our" pilot group, increases in quality of life and pay.

Gup

 

[LandGreen]

Another variable

Assumption: I can't imagine that the combined seniority list of both NWA/DAL will agree to anything less than SWA pay for its 737 next contract. Also assuming that pay will be rationalized above 737 rates for larger a/c in DAL's fleet.

Given: Imagine two pilots hired on the same day at SWA and DAL. Also, imagine growth at the same rate. (SWA is done with the explosive growth of 10 years ago)

Question: Compare the QOL of both the DAL and the SWA guy for any given year. 1 yr, 5 yr, 10 yr. My guess would be as the career matures for both pilots, the multiple opportunities to maximize QOL with a diverse fleet will outweigh the QOL of a pilot at a single a/c type carrier. IOW, staying senior in junior equipment is only available to individuals that pursue a job at carrier with multiple a/c types.

Just another overlooked variable that one needs to calculate when making big career decisions.

 

[The Prussian]

Both. We were the laughing stock of the industry for years because our pay was "dragging down the industry."

Then the best president to ever take the oath at SWAPA hit town and got us unimaginable, for "our" pilot group, increases in quality of life and pay.

Gup

And....BTW, back then, some of our new hires left WN, on his advice....what do you have to say about that???

Pruss

 

[GuppyWN]

And....BTW, back then, some of our new hires left WN, on his advice....what do you have to say about that???

Pruss

True statement. If you were in it pre 9/11 only for the pay then WN was not the place to be - AT THAT MOMENT. I was glad to see the guys go because they cleared a spot for me. But there is the other side of that coin. In the past few years I have had co-captains jerking gear for me that were at United, Delta, American and USAir.

My extended answer to that is............ life happens. The WN guys that left didn't just leave on a whim. I'm sure they took a life assesment and the benefits of leaving outweighed the negative.

Had 9/11 hadn't happened who knows? Do you?

We can all look back after retirement and decide how we did. I may look like an idiot for not choosing American or Delta but for now it's been a hell of a ride!

Gup

 

[waveflyer]

Landgreen-
assumption: southwest will only for 737's domestically over the next 30 years of the career...

If only we all had that 30+ year crystal ball.
Positive or negative it's all about what southwest WILL be- and what DAL will be for that matter- not what it currently is.

To me- it's about the culture. When I was in the pool- I got Christmas cards from southwest before my own mom could get them to me- and wasn't an employee yet. My goal is to retire and die a happy man. There are a lot of factors to that...

 

[General Lee]

Absolutely my friend.

My PERSONAL quality of life meter is pretty simple. Make bank while you can and try to enjoy your job doing it. You must be able to do this in as few "do-overs" as you can.

Southwest is my 3rd airline after almost 10 years as a corporate pilot. When I got hired here I had also been hired by American AND Delta. The first class date was Southwest. By the time the American class date had come up I was almost on the line and realized how "fun" Southwest was. The major problem is the pay SUCKED! (relative to Mother D and American) I did the math and figured a 4 year upgrade here would have me making what I would at either of the other two and we'd "hopefully" have a decent contract by then anyway.

Well, educated guess and it has, to this date, paid off. Missed the 4 year upgrade by a couple but the pay swung up to where it is today.

As far as your question I'll reference my Quality of Life Meter. Make bank and go home. Delta is hiring, WN is not. One of my very best friends is almost dead last at WN. He has been on straight reserve and commuted across the country for 2 YEARS to do it. He has had his nuts slammed so many times I cannot count the ways. In other words, he has no life. He doesn't complain so I will do it for him.

If I were him and was looking at a 15 year upgrade, which he is, I would consider going elsewhere. Flying all over the world in the right seat of a 777 doesn't suck. Spending 15 years in the right seat of a 737 might. Nobody knows yet because we have never been "there" here at WN.

Listen bro. This isn't about PBS, codeshare, or RJ's. This is about quality of life and making cash to support your family in retirement. I have championed against every single one of those things but I will be honest. At the end of the day I do not fight these things for YOUR benefit, I fight them for MINE, which may help you too!

Do I love it at Southwest Airlines? HELL YES!!!! This is, without a single doubt, the best job I could have, FOR ME. I am a redneck goofball with a pretty laid back attitude and this joint fits me like a glove. All things being considered though, in todays market, you'd be a FOOL not to put a serious eye and pen to paper on a Delta career. It's a great airline. Take off the uniform and their guys are just as "cool" as our guys. (Unlike the United guys - but I digress! )

Be selfish in your career choices, do the math and take a swing. That's pretty much all I was saying.

Gup wouldn't leave Southwest for ANY carrier - today. If I were #5832 I'd at least do the math.

Gup

P.S. I'm not telling anyone to jump ship like we had Pre 9/11 here at WN! I'm simply explaining to you what would go into my decisions in todays environment.

Wait, did you really say you wanted to "take off my DL uniform"? (see bold above) Hey, some may go that way (not that there is anything wrong with that), but if you are like THAT, you may want to go over to Virgin America instead.....Just sayin.....


As far as jumping ship, I wouldn't think you would want to do that yet, but after 10 years of long multiple leg trips, you may wish you had taken that DL class some years ago. But, your fun stews and larger pay check (for now) may get you through those long days. Thanks for the honesty, and make sure your senior guys don't rally for age 70+ eventually.



Bye Bye---General Lee