Question for ATC

[Lrjtcaptain]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** you guys are getting angry. I was going of what I was told.


The comment about breaking a rule after a controller tells you to do something. In reality, whos gonna violate you? Not the controller, you were doing what he asked.

But let me make this point. I was semi scetchy about this whole rule thing. Anyways, the way it was interpreted to me was that the adminstrator delegates the authority becasue he/she would have to. They aren't in the Towers, Trac's and ARTCC's. But once I did some research and took into consideration the Houston ARTCC notam it makes sense how those rules are over thrown.

So I appologize. I was wrong. I don't know everything, I dont pretend to. I asked the controllers at my facility and they told me we can tell pilots to do whatever we want. They most likely wont comply but we can ask them to.

 

[kilroy]

I like the way the do it in Europe . All you have to do is ask for high speed. If the controller says "high speed approved" goes as fast as you like 10000 feet or below. Also departing hou is the same way . Haul zee a$$ ......

 

[chperplt]

Also departing hou is the same way . Haul zee a$$ ......

Not any more it's not.. NOTAM has flown the coup!

 

[de727ups]

LrjtCaptain

"**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** you guys are getting angry."

We'll, not so much angry but hate to see bad info go unchallenged. Most pilots think what ATC says is gospel. I mean, people read these threads and I hate to see a guy get screwed because he got some bad info here.

Plus, you made some pretty strong statements. Your "hub manager" (I guess that's your boss) said you were right....you don't sound "semi sketchy about the rule" in your replys.

You think 250 below 10 is no big deal? Say that with an FAA inspector looking over your shoulder on a line check. I promise you if I exceed 250 below 10 with a company check airman on board it's a debrief item....everyone looks for it.

And I love this:

"I asked the controllers at my facility and they told me we can tell pilots to do whatever we want. They most likely wont comply but we can ask them to."

Glad I know how the system works now....where do you work at again?

 

[de727ups]

ATCer

I was surprized at how few pilot devations turn into violations. I know the guys I fly with are super paranoid about ATC and think you are all out to get us. Being that I worked in a FAA facility, I know you guys just want to do your job and go home at the end of the day without any hassles. Busting every pilot that screwed up would be a lot of extra work for you.....guess we're lucky it is.....

For sure you have to cover yourself, though. If it becomes a deal for you or the snitch goes off.....then you gotta CYA.

In honor of this thread, I'm declaring tomorrow "Be extra nice to ATC day". Can I do that???......

I promise I'll be extra nice.

 

[vschip]

thanks for the info, ATCER, only saw them a couple times at JFK, but it was always a rush, glad to see they got special handling...

 

[Vector4fun]

I'm late replying to this thread because I was out of town.

Controllers shouldn't be asking/telling pilots to exceed 250 kts below 10,000'. We're not authorised to. (except in an emergency.) That said, any aircraft that requires a speed greater than 250 kts for safe operation is allowed to do so. I have worked a sh*t load of T-38s at 300-310 kts on downwind etc.

Years ago, I occasionally would ask a pilot to descend immediately to 9000 or 8000 before slowing to 250 to avoid a situation, because I wasn't that familiar with the rule, but I recall a briefing item about a dozen years ago that stated it was wrong, and have not done it since. There are still controllers however, that don't really know the rule, or just choose to "ignore" it because they figure it's no big deal. It's not to them, but could be to a flight crew.

All that said, I WILL ask a crew for "Best Forward Speed", and my intent is;

As fast as legally and safely possible for your configuration and altitude.
I just don't have time to explain my intent.

I also want to say there's been many times when I've had two aircraft in trail both report 250 kts, and there's a 30 kt difference in GS at nearly the same altitude. While there has always been a little bit of good natured "gamesmanship" on both sides of the mike, it doesn't often pay to fib about airspeed too much in a busy terminal environment, unless you want to see some pretty draconian speed restrictions 30 miles out......

 

[regionalcap]

Vector4fun

That was a good reply. I hope the majority of controllers understand the rules like you do. We all have our careers on the line. Breaking a regulation or asking a pilot to break a regulation is nothing to play around with in our line of work.

 

[ATCER]

I was surprized at how few pilot devations turn into violations. I know the guys I fly with are super paranoid about ATC and think you are all out to get us. Being that I worked in a FAA facility, I know you guys just want to do your job and go home at the end of the day without any hassles. Busting every pilot that screwed up would be a lot of extra work for you.....guess we're lucky it is.....

When pilots tour the facility that is their first question... they think we are out to get them. I'm replying to CONFIRM THIS !!!

I'm kidding... why bust a guy if nothing serious happened ??? He/She (being PC here fellas) is doing a job just like me... did I say deviation left or west ??? Did I say the right call sign or did they respond to the wrong one ??? The airspace around New York is so complex, there is SO MUCH traffic (ZNY is averging close to 10K ops a day) and we're all trying to get through our day together. Mistakes are going to happen, it's just a fact in this business. If it's minor we might snap at you, if you gave us a nice scare you might get the phone # to the wood shed. Every time I have spoken to a pilot after giving out a # they call thinking they are in deep $hit... only to find out I just wanted to say hey, talk it out, see if I issued something confusing, here what happened on their end, ok... have a nice day... and next time you fly though say hi... That's the average of what happens. I can't speak about all facilities but most places here in NY are like that.

And don't forget... fill out the NASA form if your unsure.

 

[ATCER]

In honor of this thread, I'm declaring tomorrow "Be extra nice to ATC day". Can I do that???......

I promise I'll be extra nice.

Oh sure... today is my one big day off...

It's the thought that counts...