Question for ATC about weather

five-alive

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Sometimes if I want to go around a buildup I'll "cheat" and go around it if it is a small deviation. And for large of course I ask. But I've flown with some guys who seem to push it and deviate maybe a mile or so off centerline without saying anything. How far do you allow a pilot to be off course before you say something to the pilot? 1/2, 1, 2 miles? thanks
 

Lrjtcaptain

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If your on the airway you have + or - 4 miles. Always good to ask. I don't know any controllers that aren't going to allow the deviation.
 

ISaidRightTurns

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If I were running the bubble and someone started deviating without asking, say 1/2 mile, it would be a big deal. But most controllers won't run traffic real close if there is weather in the area because some pilots will just turn without asking. If I do run traffic tight in weather, I will assign present heading to one or both.

As far as you owning 4 miles on both sides of an airway, that is kinda an outdated ruleing in my opinion. Its in the book. But its in the book under the nonradar section (chapter 6 section 5 for the doubters). As soon as you hear those precious radar contact words, I wouldn't turn more than a few degrees for even 30 seconds without advising.

Under the same section (6-5-4) it says that (using angles) an aircraft cleared from a point to another 260 miles away owns, at the widest part, 10 miles both sides of a direct line. That's alot of airspace, and again, why it is under the nonradar section.

Longstory short, 1/2 mile and they guy sounds bored, tell him. 1/2 mile and the controller is busy, advise him, and say it will only be for a mile or so.
 

Mikeoscar

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You never know what the whole picture is that the controller has. it might not be a great idea to deviate without asking regardless if it is only a mile or so. They are familiar with they weather in the area as well. If you need to go off course for a few, get ahold of him first. If you can't and it becomes a safety issue I would do what you have to do.
 

User546

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Mikeoscar said:
You never know what the whole picture is that the controller has. it might not be a great idea to deviate without asking regardless if it is only a mile or so. They are familiar with they weather in the area as well. If you need to go off course for a few, get ahold of him first. If you can't and it becomes a safety issue I would do what you have to do.
Yea, but you must've never flown anywhere near the east coast when bad weather rolls in! You can spend a couple minutes just trying to squeeze a short request in with the controller due to all the other airliners and corporate guys on frequency needing deviations for the same reason. By the time you get ahold of them, you'd typically be on the backside of the cell by then!
 

Mikeoscar

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I hate the east coast, never fly over there. I used to fly out of Pittsburgh , but Imma controller in Dayton.
 

PHX767

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ISaidRightTurns said:
As soon as you hear those precious radar contact words, I wouldn't turn more than a few degrees for even 30 seconds without advising.
Just to clarify: I assume you mean that this applies when the controller provides a vector or modifies your original clearance. I believe the term "radar contact" by itself does not mean that ATC will provide terrain or seperation clearance.

In the terminal environment I always coordinate deviations, sometimes at altitude I'll scoot over a little bit to miss a buildup with out asking if the guy is real busy.
 

Mmmmmm Burritos

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PHX767 said:
I believe the term "radar contact" by itself does not mean that ATC will provide terrain or seperation clearance.
Oh yes it does. But of course you don't want to let ATC fly the plane for you. You're the one that hits the mountain if ATC makes a mistake, not them!
 

RichardRambone

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Radar contact means just that, you're viewable on their screen. The term itself doesn't mean seperation but no controller is going to be that much of a terd.
 

PHX767

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Here's the definition

From the pilot/controller glossary;

RADAR CONTACT-

a. Used by ATC to inform an aircraft that it is identified on the radar display and radar flight following will be provided until radar identification is terminated. Radar service may also be provided within the limits of necessity and capability. When a pilot is informed of "radar contact," he/she automatically discontinues reporting over compulsory reporting points.


I was ready for a slam dunk but the wording has changed since I last read it. Used to have a sentence that specifically said something about terrain seperation not provided until at the MVA and a vector issued.

Can an ATC controller chime in and clarify, please? Isaidrightturns?

Thanks in advance.

 

ISaidRightTurns

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radar contact = hey there, I see you

cleared to... = i now care that i can see you cause whatever happens will be my fault.

This assumes we are talking about a pick up clearance with a center off an uncontrolled field or something. You can't go IFR just cause you are radar contact, need to wait for the clearance.
 

Mmmmmm Burritos

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ISaidRightTurns said:
radar contact = hey there, I see you

cleared to... = i now care that i can see you cause whatever happens will be my fault.

This assumes we are talking about a pick up clearance with a center off an uncontrolled field or something. You can't go IFR just cause you are radar contact, need to wait for the clearance.
That's correct. I typed something but meant something different. As soon as you get a "turn to" or "climb to" or "cleared to" THEN you have terrain avoidance.
 
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