Question for AirTran Pilots

[texman]

We have nobody on furlough. Some took a bypass, because they have other jobs.

How many pilots were hired in 2009 and 2010. Were a lot of them furlough recalls? If so how many were furloughed pilots?

 

[roughneck]

AirTran has ZERO pilots on furlough. All furloughees were recalled months ago...way before the SWA merger was announced.

buzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!! You lose.

You do have pilots currently on furlough. If you dont believe me look at the official seniority list. I've got a buddy who is furloughed right now.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'd say there is a high probability that guys that passed recall are ********************ting their britches right now.

Gup

 

[fr8doggie]

What's the Truth?

buzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!! You lose.

You do have pilots currently on furlough. If you dont believe me look at the official seniority list. I've got a buddy who is furloughed right now.

So what the hell is the truth? I'm trying to have a discussion w/ my SWA Captain buddy ('93 hire) about the relative strengths and expectations of each plot group. This is a simple question: Did AirTran have pilots on furlough when the merger was anounced. If they didn't have pilots on furlough were they hiring? I don't see how you can have pilots on furlough and be hiring at the same time

 

[redflyer65]

Did you get a look at the books? What did they look like? They must have been bad if you guys bailed on the F9 deal. How were the meetings between management? Did you guys have shrimp cocktail at lunch? Did you and the other managers fly a corp. jet or mainline? Man...there are so many questions you guys can answer.........cant wait to work with ya!

Really? That's what you have?

There never was going to be a deal. We didn't bail on anything, we got a look at the competitors books for free. Get it now?

 

[redflyer65]

So what the hell is the truth? I'm trying to have a discussion w/ my SWA Captain buddy ('93 hire) about the relative strengths and expectations of each plot group. This is a simple question: Did AirTran have pilots on furlough when the merger was anounced. If they didn't have pilots on furlough were they hiring? I don't see how you can have pilots on furlough and be hiring at the same time

I think it might depend on the furlough section of the Airtran contract. Some unions allow you to defer recall up until a certain date. So yes, you could have deferred recalls and new hires. Not sure about how the Airtran contract is set up.

 

[atldc9]

My seniority list shows 21 guys have still not accepted recall from furlough. All have been offered recall. 169 pilots were furloughed in 2008. Zero new hires in 2009, 82 new hires in 2010, through Sept.

 

[Crash Pad]

Airtran had a Febuary and March 2010 New Hire class. That should conclude the furlough question. You can't have newhires with furloughs unless the furlough bypassed. Not hard to put this together people.

Airtran also had a Sept. 2010 pre 27th class... Has just started another class either late Oct. or Early Nov. Not sure about the exact date.

20ish a class. Hope that helps you all piss on eachother for another 12 pages.

 

[SWA/FO]

We did have a few pilots who voluntarily bypassed furlough recall

I know of someone that recently passed on recall, something about a $25,000 bonus at his current employer - that he needs to get. Seems CRAZY to me, since he might have just won the lottery.

 

[FNG320]

The bottom line issue/facts are:

SWA has no one on furlough of any type.
SWA has not "hired" anyone for quite a while (since 2008/9)

AirTran has no on a forced furlough (bypass yes, but no one has been forced since all have been recalled at least once).
AirTran has hired pilots in 2010.

If someone bypasses furlough IAW his CBA, then for any merger process, he should be consider on LOA/Present for duty, and not on furlough. The idea that AirTran has pilots on Furlough while SWA does not is absurb and narrow minded. It has an obvious adjenda; to try and lower AirTran pilots exptectations in the SLI and maybe used as justification to puts some AirTran pilots on the bottom of the Joint SLI.

If you want to look at a SLI that had pilots still on furlough, then look at DAL/NWA. It is my understanding that both pilot groups on furlough (with recall rights thru their CBA) and that they all kept thier relative senioirity. Delta has even hired new pilots while many furloughed pilost bypassed recall. Personally, this whole discussion is about trying to give an advantage to SWA in the SLI vs a fair integration.

Just my opinion......

FNG

 

[GuppyWN]

Again we are confusing ALPA merger language with what will get used.

Gup

 

[ivauir]

If someone bypasses furlough IAW his CBA, then for any merger process, he should be consider on LOA/Present for duty, and not on furlough. The idea that AirTran has pilots on Furlough while SWA does not is absurb and narrow minded.

The problem is that even guys who voluntarily bypass represent pilots who will be included in the transaction, but don't bring work with them. Basically AirTran has more pilots than they have pilot positions.

 

[j41driver]

buzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!! You lose.

You do have pilots currently on furlough. If you dont believe me look at the official seniority list. I've got a buddy who is furloughed right now.

Anyone that shows up as FUR on the seniority list is because they bypassed recall due to [insert personal reason here].

 

[roughneck]

I don't care why they bypassed the point is you have more pilots than you have work thus the FUR status.

 

[BlueYonder]

I don't care why they bypassed the point is you have more pilots than you have work thus the FUR status.

That would be why Airtran is hiring?

 

[roughneck]

They wouldn't need a new hire class if the 20 guys they already hired were working and flying AT airplanes.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't care why they bypassed the point is you have more pilots than you have work thus the FUR status.

You don't seem to understand how fuloughs/recalls work. All furloughees have been recalled, but some of them took other contract positions or returned to active duty and have been bypassing their recall accordingly. In fact, you very well may see "FUR" next to their name on the combined list. How do ya like them horse apples? :laugh:

 

[Bwipilot]

The issue isn't how furloughs/recalls work--the issue is whether a pilot on voluntary furlough is considered to be an active pilot or not.

If the integration is a staple, I'm sure roughneck will concede to whatever position you're trying to claim

If the SLI is not, roughneck's (and many other pilots' position) is that the VF's shouldn't count because the VF is basically a furlough out of order. If the VF is slotted into the list, everyone from his company gets moved down one position on the SLI from the VF's side of the pile.

 

[cappydd]

doesnt matter......those who voluntarily took a LOA or furlough to help out their brothers and sisters are still on the list, and will accordingly be placed into the senority list where they currently stand. They have only lost "longevity" with regard to pay, as CBA states they retain their senority.
This whole SLI thing is what it is. I like many others will be convinced it is fair and equitable if everyone is a little upset in the end. No windfall for either side, and lets just all get to work.

 

[Lear70]

doesnt matter......those who voluntarily took a LOA or furlough to help out their brothers and sisters are still on the list, and will accordingly be placed into the senority list where they currently stand. They have only lost "longevity" with regard to pay, as CBA states they retain their senority.

Moderator hat off:

I have a good friend who is on Voluntary Bypass until his corporate training contract is up who had asked the same question. The answer above is EXACTLY what the MEC has told him. If you were on INVOLUNTARY furlough, you could expect a staple. If you are on VOLUNTARY BYPASS, it's treated much the same as military leave per our CBA that was in effect BEFORE the deal was announced, and their place in the seniority pile is held.

Granted, a couple caveats for you:

1. These people are WAY down the seniority list. Seriously. Like in the bottom 150 people out of 1800+. I don't think they're going to be pushing too many people down the combined list at the end of the day.

2. There are so few of them left that it is almost-inconsequential. Seriously, if you're in the bottom of the combined list, what do you care if it's the bottom 40 or the bottom 60 of over 8,000 people? No,,, seriously?

3. The whole idea that this in ANY way would have precluded hiring is farcical, at best. We hired more in the FIRST class than we had on bypass. We were hiring over 100 people. The bypassing pilots can come back at any time there is a vacancy, and there's been one every month for the last 4 months. The whole "there wouldn't be jobs to hire for if there weren't people on bypass" argument is more than a little perplexing to those of us here...


If this discussion was started to simply discuss where those people would fall, there's your answer. If this discussion was to try to see if there was a vantage point to be had from "who had people on furlough and who was hiring", well, as anything else on FI, it's up to your own personal interpretation that will only be vetted by time and the actual results sometime late next year or early 2012. At which point Nostradamus says the world is going to end anyway, so I guess we should get off the computers and go live it up!