Question about SWA/AirTran deal

[Richard Gozinya]

It's expensive and painful. We have started a fund for PCL 128.
Along with the purchase of a HD Video camera.

Just send a PM to Joey Merchant, he'll do it for pennies............on second thought, he'll probably pay us for the priviledge. Don't know if he'll let us video it though.

 

[Kharma Police]

KP,

I will attempt to give you an answer from my internal observations. Since you already have the "answer", you may disagree with my opinion but that is the great thing about FI.

If GK thought merging companies was going to harm the company's bottom line or significantly harm the culture, the deal wouldn't have gone through. He obviously believes the SWA employees can and will make this work with the help of highly motivated AirTran employees who he presumed would enjoy joining a company with a vastly different approach to their employees.

F9 and AAI situations are two very different situations; bankruptcy judges, tight timelines, different fleet types and a competing bidder for F9 assets (most folks forget that RAH outbid SWA and the creditors chose the $.18 a share offer vs. the $.12 a share offer from SWA...the SLI issue was a small reason among many for why it didn't go).

GK believes the SLI issue can be worked out among the two pilot groups. There is also a 24 month timeline (written into the SWA/SWAPA CBA) that is ticking that if the two operations can not be merged, SWA must come back to SWAPA and negotiate an extension to the 24 month timeline or seek other solutions.

Lots of what-ifs but at the end of the day this can be worked out in a "fair and reasonable" fashion, not pleasing all pilots mind you but one that can combine two solid operations into a great airline with huge potential for growth and expansion.

What is your explanation?

Thanks in advance,

Respectfully,

I am in total agreement with your assessment. I wonder if other pilots, mainly your first officers share that same view point? I will add however that this "acquisition" is key to an overall growth strategy that will insure long term profitably for both of our combined employee groups. I have stated in the past and your CEO has admitted that you are maxed out growth wise with your current route map. To answer the question, this merger will go through because Mr. Kelly wants it to go through regardless of what SWAPA or ALPA has to say. He is playing it smart by staying out of the process this time so when the lists are combined he can just shrug his shoulders and say to both groups, "sorry boys, it's the law". The combined companies will grow and prosper and we will hopefully enjoy the rest of our careers. I am very excited and am looking forward to working with you all!

 

[Daddy]

Jball is correct. The F9 thing was a complete ruse. Got a good look at the books though..

I agree...F9 was never a serious offer in my opinion, but successfully drove up the price for Republic!

Gary will drop this thing like a bad habit if it goes south...the man just does not like things that are super-complicated (think anything IT-related at SWA, wifi, international flying). If it's too hard, Gary wants no part of it, believe me. I really dont think it will get ugly, but if it starts to and AT folks are wanting seat protection on top of their big pay raise and labor at SWA gets riled, I suppose it could happen.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

....................

 

[SKC]

...like things that are super-complicated (think anything IT-related at SWA, wifi, international flying).

I don't really think GK has anything against intl flying in particular, other than our res system is not capable of making intl reservations. It can't compute exchange rates, foreign currency, intl taxes, etc. That's a big investment for a new res system for some routes that may or may not be that profitable. So, it's far easier to save the money and stay close to home for the time being.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Every deal has an exit, if it didn't he wouldn't be doing his job properly. I'm sure The Falcon has the same arrangement.

The question that hasn't been asked by the Southwest guys on this board is that if Mr. Kelly was so concerned about us Critters becoming a fly in your ointment then why didn't he let SWAPA work out the seniority issues as a contingency to buying AirTran like he did with Frontier?

I know the answer and I'm sure you Southwest guys do too, you just won't admit it.

So what's the real issue Kharma? You make some posts on here how excited you are to work with the new Southwest team then in other posts you write flame like this.

Have you really done any research into the "let SWAPA work out the seniority issues as a contingency" issue with Frontier and how much of a non-starter that was - or how much of a premium SWA had to pay over Republic for that deal? I know, much better press on the message boards to blame pompous SWA pilots for killing the deal right?

We line guys at SWA have no idea why pilots took the blame for that deal falling through. Now it seems like a good thing it did. BUT, it appears you know the "answer" about what went down so please let us know. I work at Southwest, and I have no idea what took place during that 4 hour SLI negotiating session. You do I guess?

How do you think would have worked out for us if we had negotiate SLI in 4 hours?

Give it up man. Time to give up the bash and let the process take place. I know you have many answers, but what you don't know yet is Southwest is a great place to work. I jumpseat on Airtran often. I don't think I have ever heard that phrase there.

Welcome to SWA. Seriously. Just time to leave behind the misinfo how we "hosed" Frontier.

BD

 

[ivauir]

I am in total agreement with your assessment. I wonder if other pilots, mainly your first officers share that same view point?

Of course we do.

By definition "fair and equitable" will provide the necessary balance.

 

[Kharma Police]

So what's the real issue Kharma? You make some posts on here how excited you are to work with the new Southwest team then in other posts you write flame like this.

Have you really done any research into the "let SWAPA work out the seniority issues as a contingency" issue with Frontier and how much of a non-starter that was - or how much of a premium SWA had to pay over Republic for that deal? I know, much better press on the message boards to blame pompous SWA pilots for killing the deal right?

We line guys at SWA have no idea why pilots took the blame for that deal falling through. Now it seems like a good thing it did. BUT, it appears you know the "answer" about what went down so please let us know. I work at Southwest, and I have no idea what took place during that 4 hour SLI negotiating session. You do I guess?

How do you think would have worked out for us if we had negotiate SLI in 4 hours?

Give it up man. Time to give up the bash and let the process take place. I know you have many answers, but what you don't know yet is Southwest is a great place to work. I jumpseat on Airtran often. I don't think I have ever heard that phrase there.

Welcome to SWA. Seriously. Just time to leave behind the misinfo how we "hosed" Frontier.

BD

My post was in reference to the original thread topic. It was a simple question and I gave a simple answer. Again, Mr. Kelly wants this deal done with AirTran because he wants it done, simple! He obviously wasn't serious about Frontier because of the many issues that you all have stated including the labor contingency. He was looking for a no drama quick and easy short sale. The point of my original post was to illustrate why this deal is too important for both companies for Mr. Kelly to just to walk away like he did from Frontier and to see if you all could reach that same conclusion. Obviously, not acquiring Frontier didn't alter Southwest in any way but the wishful thinking that some of you might have if this deal falls through would have long term negative affects for both of us.

For the record, do I believe you guys torpedoed the Frontier deal, NO. Do I believe if Mr. Kelly really wanted Frontier he would have sealed the deal, YES.

 

[OldManPilot]

I have been struggling to come up with a way for both sides to mutually understand each other so we can try to support each and work through this SLI. The only thing I have found to help me understand this is "Pride". Both employee groups are VERY proud of their companies, and rightly so! Southwest is an industry leader in many ways, the way they treat their employees, their contract, and their work ethics. Airtran pilots also have a right to be VERY proud of their company as well. The work ethics in the face of hostile management, strong and profitable growth, etc.
Keeping this in mind, try remembering when you post your comments that these pilots on both sides are PROUD of their companies. Its a bit like dealing with my wife. I can have arguments with her, but no way would I let anyone else say anything rude to her.
Being on the AirTran side of this deal it is going to be tough to see a company that so many have worked hard to build go away. Both work groups are and will be very protective of their turf. Just try to understand how the other side is feeling. I am proud of many of my fellow AirTran pilots. They understand that this deal will make them much stronger and provide long term job protection, they just do not want to have their dignity questioned or removed.

I hope this helps in some small way. Thanks for reading.

 

[slaquer5]

So what's the real issue Kharma? You make some posts on here how excited you are to work with the new Southwest team then in other posts you write flame like this.


BD

Brother you seem very bitter. So he makes a statement you don't like so you attack him.

 

[texman]

I have been struggling to come up with a way for both sides to mutually understand each other so we can try to support each and work through this SLI. The only thing I have found to help me understand this is "Pride". Both employee groups are VERY proud of their companies, and rightly so! Southwest is an industry leader in many ways, the way they treat their employees, their contract, and their work ethics. Airtran pilots also have a right to be VERY proud of their company as well. The work ethics in the face of hostile management, strong and profitable growth, etc.
Keeping this in mind, try remembering when you post your comments that these pilots on both sides are PROUD of their companies. Its a bit like dealing with my wife. I can have arguments with her, but no way would I let anyone else say anything rude to her.
Being on the AirTran side of this deal it is going to be tough to see a company that so many have worked hard to build go away. Both work groups are and will be very protective of their turf. Just try to understand how the other side is feeling. I am proud of many of my fellow AirTran pilots. They understand that this deal will make them much stronger and provide long term job protection, they just do not want to have their dignity questioned or removed.

I hope this helps in some small way. Thanks for reading.

Great Post. With both sides having pride, I hope we can direct this energy to growing our company into something much bigger.

 

[chase]

KP,

Good post. Pride is one element...admittedly the challenge is understanding those elements in light of the frustration, angst, anger toward one's own company on public forums.

There have been enough comments, threads, posts about "how ugly, mean my wife is" so it is easy to understand why SWA folks are troubled when "the trophy wife" (just kidding...we have our warts also) is being offered up. Your analogy is spot on.

The uncertainty factor is in play also....many have experienced that also at various points in their career....others have not. I've flown with 10+ FOs in the last 6 weeks and nearly everyone has said, "cautiously optimistic"...mixed feelings and rightfully so.

AAI pilots are dealing with a merger and an inferior TA that is being offered....SWA pilots are dealing with a merger, voting on the -800s that have pluses and minuses.

Uncertain upgrades with these impending changes precipitated by 2 yrs of stagnant growth gravitate folks toward less looking at things in a less than rosy view of the world also. This certainly applies to SWA and may apply to some of your group.

The backdrop of all of this is occurring during the highest unemployment levels since the great depression, lowest growth in our nation and uncertainty....most of the public would find our arguments and complaints frivolous due to our earned income potentials.

I can't put myself in an AAI shoes nor the shoes of a SWA FO.

What I can do is make sure when the deal is done we treat everyone, regardless of their route to SWA as fellow employees and keep the focus on what has made SWA so successful, the passenger and keeping them safe.

Nothing monumental in any of the above; I look forward to working with all of you guys/gals and seeing where this lead...I'm glad I'll have a front row seat to see how this plays out. Hope we can bring all the AAI hostages back also...no one left behind is a solid theme WE CAN ALL AGREE ON!