Question about ExpressJet

[heph224]

I understand that ExpressJet might be losing 69 aircraft starting in 2007. How many of you think that this will happen and if it does how many pilots will lose their jobs as a result. What other alternatives does ExpressJet have if this does happen? If ExpressJet does not lose these airplanes but puts in a lower bid will it ask for pilot concessions? I am looking for honest, realistic, answers here.

Thanks.

 

[CA1900]

I don't mean to be condescending here, but there's a button near the top of the screen labeled "Search." Use it. This has been hashed out and discussed since the news broke; try searching for "ExpressJet 69 Aircraft" as a starting point. It will yield some threads you can start with:

"What's in Store For ExpressJet?"
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=72748

"ExpressJet...What's Really Going On?"
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=70378

"COEX Losing 69 Aircraft"
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69211

"ExpressJet To Lose 69 A/C by 2007"
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=69216

 

[flyingtoilet]

Would love to help you out, but nobody here at XJT has any idea what the future holds. These are the only things I can tell you that I have heard from our director of flight ops concerning the 69:

1. Current upgrades have been told to expect to hold their seat.
2. In my recurrent class about a month ago, he seemed quite upbeat about the situation. Both he and our CEO have both made repeated voicemails where they seem generally interested in not losing the aircraft. whether flying them for CAL or someone else. One thing on our side is that if we decide to keep the aircraft, we will be keeping our XR, which can fly into some destinations that other 50 seat aircraft cannot. Therefore, it's not necessary to bid on current flying for another airline, but convince them maybe to add service to some destinations they couldn't touch before.

Really anything more than this would be total speculation. Plus, even optimism by our director of flight ops now could change in a few months. We'll no more towards the end of summer. Personally, I think things will turn out, but that's just a gut feeling. You won't get anything more from anyone else on this board right now.

For now I would take a deep look at even the worst case scenario - you were furloughed next year. Would gaining some 121 jet time and going through a 121 initial course be more benefecial than what you are doing now? This is much is certain, if you do come to XJT, make sure that you don't burn bridges behind you so you'll have something to try and go back to if it all goes to hell.

 

[AviatorTx]

I agree with the toilet.

You are taking a pretty good chance if you come here. At a minimum, I would keep my logbook up to date, and keep sending those apps out.

This way you have a back up plan hopefully. Ideally things will work out and there will be no furloughs. However, if you get hired this spring and the 69 planes go in 2007... So do you. Just make sure to have a plan B if you come here now.

Either way, good luck!

 

[ERJFO]

I understand that ExpressJet might be losing 69 aircraft starting in 2007. How many of you think that this will happen and if it does how many pilots will lose their jobs as a result. What other alternatives does ExpressJet have if this does happen? If ExpressJet does not lose these airplanes but puts in a lower bid will it ask for pilot concessions? I am looking for honest, realistic, answers here.

Thanks.

As most of the pilot group will tell you, no one really knows what is going to happen to those airplanes as of yet. Some guys I fly with are sure we are keeping the airplanes, some guys I fly with are sure we are loosing the airplanes.

Management has told us in a few voicemails and other messages that we have already put in a lower cost bid and at this point the company would make more money parking the airplanes than flying them for any less than there current low bid. They haven't asked for concessions yet and I doubt they will do so, primarily because if they do they will be voted down. Most of the people that would be furloughed (if it gets that far) aren't even voting members yet and the ones that are (from who I've talked to) say that they would rather vote "no" on a pay cut and loose their jobs than contribute to "the race to the bottom" by working for TSA or MESA style compensation and contract packages.

In response to ExpressJet's current offer Continental has put out a RFP (request for proposals) covering the 69 aircraft ExpressJet currently flies.

So a few things may happen... Continental may be posturing and trying to lower ExpressJet's price and sending the message "We've taken our pound of flesh from our mechanics, FAs, and pilots and we are getting our share from ExpressJet too" and subsequently decide to take ExpressJet's lower offer and not much will change at ExpressJet in the eyes of the pilots aside from some minor operational and efficiency issues. OR, Continental may give all or part of the flying to someone else.

If this happens ExpressJet may give the airplanes back to Continental and furlough (depending on how much flying is lost), fly for another airline with the "available aircraft", or use the aircraft in another way (like Independence).

The bottom line however, is that no one will know until Continental makes a decision and announces it. Don't believe any "done deal" statements you hear or read unless they come as a press release from Continental.

Lastly here are a few important notes:

If ExpressJet does furlough it is possible the line divisor, or the amount of hours pilots lines consist of may be lowered to make more lines and furlough less pilots. ExpressJet may also make "non-flying" lines (they pay 50% of guarantee) to furlough as few as they can. This has been done before by the company and is a viable option as the company would not want to furlough just to make immediate recalls. Many people assume that the number of airplanes lost X 10 (5 crews per airplane) would be the amount of people furloughed. This is somewhat incorrect as the amount of guys placed on furlough depends on block hours lost not airplanes lost, and does not take into account any of the job "saving" measures outlined above.


ALSO

If ExpressJet looses all 69 airplanes Continental could be planning to take more in the future as 69 was the maximum amount they were allowed to take at this time (and this was the earliest they were allowed to take them as well).

I hope this helps.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Those are some great replies from ERJ, Toilet, and TX.

It's a gamble coming here right now, but where is it not a gamble to go in this industry? This is still the best company at the “regional” level, bar none. Good luck in your decision.

TA

 

[Johnny Utah]

Training contract...

Does ExpressJet make you sign a training contract or resign from a furloughed position?

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

Does ExpressJet make you sign a training contract or resign from a furloughed position?

No, you

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

Does ExpressJet make you sign a training contract or resign from a furloughed position?

No, you can quit anytime.

 

[dojetdriver]

Does ExpressJet make you sign a training contract or resign from a furloughed position?

Hell no and hell no.

 

[AviatorTx]

If ExpressJet does furlough it is possible the line divisor, or the amount of hours pilots lines consist of may be lowered to make more lines and furlough less pilots. ExpressJet may also make "non-flying" lines (they pay 50% of guarantee) to furlough as few as they can. This has been done before by the company and is a viable option as the company would not want to furlough just to make immediate recalls.

IMHO, I would put ZERO stock into these options. Yes, we have done this after 9/11, but that was when CAL was GIVING us a bunch more block hours, not TAKING them away.

The writing is already on the wall regarding this. Look how the productivity of the line value is going up. A sign of this is the noticeably less number of commutable lines, especially in EWR.

XJT is already trying to streamline their operation as much as possible in anticipation of what might happen with the 69 planes. In 2007, if we lose that flying to CAL, it will just further cause XJT to cut as many costs as possible. Read: Less pilots, and more flying. I would expect to see the average line value go up to well over 90 hours. Also, there will be a reduction of reserve coverage, so the chance of trading your line down will be slim.

Perhaps there should be a big sign on the wall when you come in to interview. Caution: Enter at own risk.

Regardless, like I said before... Good luck to everyone.

 

[dojetdriver]

Perhaps there should be a big sign on the wall when you come in to interview. Caution: Enter at own risk.

EVERY airline should have this when you interview.

 

[ERJFO]

IMHO, I would put ZERO stock into these options. Yes, we have done this after 9/11, but that was when CAL was GIVING us a bunch more block hours, not TAKING them away.

The writing is already on the wall regarding this. Look how the productivity of the line value is going up. A sign of this is the noticeably less number of commutable lines, especially in EWR.

XJT is already trying to streamline their operation as much as possible in anticipation of what might happen with the 69 planes. In 2007, if we lose that flying to CAL, it will just further cause XJT to cut as many costs as possible. Read: Less pilots, and more flying. I would expect to see the average line value go up to well over 90 hours. Also, there will be a reduction of reserve coverage, so the chance of trading your line down will be slim.

Perhaps there should be a big sign on the wall when you come in to interview. Caution: Enter at own risk.

Regardless, like I said before... Good luck to everyone.

Jesus, so much for being optamistic.

 

[AviatorTx]

Jesus, so much for being optamistic.

I am optimistic, but still have to be realistic also. I think there is a good chance that the Jim's can find flying for those planes with our pilots.

At the same time, I do not want to give anyone false hope. I just think that everyone interviewing here right now should have a plan B, just in case. This is one of those things that we just won't know until it either happens or it does not.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

...Less pilots, and more flying. I would expect to see the average line value go up to well over 90 hours. Also, there will be a reduction of reserve coverage, so the chance of trading your line down will be slim.

Perhaps there should be a big sign on the wall when you come in to interview. Caution: Enter at own risk.

Regardless, like I said before... Good luck to everyone.

Unless something has changed, the contract limits the average line value at 88 hours.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Read: Less pilots, and more flying. I would expect to see the average line value go up to well over 90 hours.

Overall this was a good post except for the above line. The average line value cannot contractually be above 88 hours per Section 21.D.1.a:

a. Regular lines will be constructed with a maximum of 95 block hours. Regular lines will not average more than 88 block hours in each domicile and status.

 

[AviatorTx]

Overall this was a good post except for the above line. The average line value cannot contractually be above 88 hours per Section 21.D.1.a:

a. Regular lines will be constructed with a maximum of 95 block hours. Regular lines will not average more than 88 block hours in each domicile and status.

DOH!!!!

My Alzheimers got the best of me again. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

How about some yellow pages: Allow average line values above 88 hours if the company needs it, but pay EVERYONE in that sub-base 2x instead of 1.5x Junior Man add-pay for whatever the difference is between 88 and that months higher than normal average. Example: avg. line value is allowed to reach 89.5, we all get 1.5 hrs at 2xJMP=3 hours add pay? You have to pay everyone because everyone suffers more or less together at higher average line values.

 

[CALnTX]

Lets not forget too that CAL is getting ready to interview more XJT guys.I was told by me chief pilot there are about 400 guys from XJT with apps in.hopefully we can get a lot of them over here IN CASE the worst happens...this is somewhat of an agreement between CAL and XJt.maybe Neal knows more

 

[dojetdriver]

Lets not forget too that CAL is getting ready to interview more XJT guys.I was told by me chief pilot there are about 400 guys from XJT with apps in.hopefully we can get a lot of them over here IN CASE the worst happens...this is somewhat of an agreement between CAL and XJt.maybe Neal knows more

I've heard this as well from 2 ca's I flew with who interviewed with CAL and were told this while they were there. I find it ironic. Here ExpressJet, we are going to kick you in the balls by pulling 69 planes but we'll give you a big sloppy wet kiss by hiring as many of your pilots as we can to mitigate furlolughs.

I'm not complaining, it's just funny.

 

[Superpilot92]

Lets not forget too that CAL is getting ready to interview more XJT guys.I was told by me chief pilot there are about 400 guys from XJT with apps in.hopefully we can get a lot of them over here IN CASE the worst happens...this is somewhat of an agreement between CAL and XJt.maybe Neal knows more

I Hope this is true. I also hope that there are more than 400 people here at XJET that want to go to CAL. As soon as i can apply i am getting mine in.

 

[mckpickle]

I find it interesting that CAL says they'll take more of our guys now. It's a moot point since if they do take the 69 a/c we'll still have to furlough. It's just we'd be furloughing guys who've been here for 6 months instead of guys who've been here 1 1/2 years. We're still hiring like mad and will still have to furlough if they take a/c.

I think it may be some sort of "bubba" deal where XJT says to CAL if you take more of our guys we can lower our unit cost due to having more junior employees. Then we pass on the savings to CAL. Heck, it makes sense. 5-8 year captains or 3-7 year captains. The big savings here however isn't in the pay rates. While that does cost some money the big money is in the vacation. Remember after 7 years service a guy goes up to 3 weeks. Thats coming up for us in 06-07 when a lot of guys hit that mark. Huge cost for the company.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

Hell, I get 6 weeks with my sick calls.