Qatar Airways anyone?

[FCNelson]

Well, While I feel your sentiments I have to disagree. I am not saying there is anything wrong with research. But what advice can you give if you yourself cannot seem to get hired at a reasonably decent carrier, especially after over a year of flying a jet in those tough conditions. If you use your reasoning, he should be at least Allegiant if not Air Tran. Now I say again look at the types he has flown, DC9/MD80/707 Falcon 20. Now as for being a Captain, 1000 hours in type, do you not get credit for time in type? So if you had already been a captain (typed and then current) would it not be reasonable to expect that one should be already in the left seat with 500 hours in type at that company. Additionally, EK is begging for crew and previously hired guys with less experience and ATPCliff is not even getting a call. I am really sorry but something is wrong with this whole picture. I am just not buying it. So call me a naysayer or a bully if you want but it's about credibility. If you want to really believe someone and take their advice make sure it is in fact credible. I see ATPCliff on just about every board posting things. Now how can you know those things if you are in Africa flying for god knows who. Perhaps you just read the same boards and repeat what you read. I think ATPCliff would be better off really keeping what he does private and focusing on his skills, resume and presentation because again it appears those very things keep coming into question. Perhaps we just don't really see what is REALLY going on.

Hi CommanderHoek:

Hindsight is 20/20 regarding career choices. In 2005, I too could have gone to Allegiant. I had several colleagues who went there. I was on the fence - I thought they had a good niche but wasn't sure what their long term viability was. ATP Cliff was likely in the same situation - some parts of it seemed decent, but other parts (the out-and-back schedule) are just not conductive to folks who would be commuters like Cliff (from WI) or myself as we just can't move to an Allegiant base due to other responsibilities, families, significant others with jobs, mortgages, etc. I suspect when he answers you tomorrow on that front, his response will be similar to mine.

As for AirTran, did you read his earlier post. He interviewed there ~2yrs ago, right when the Great Recession was started. He got some feedback that basically nobody was hired from his interview group because things were slowing down. Maybe he'll get the chance to go again, maybe he won't....I'm certain he has some connections there.

Regarding Emirates - the DC-9 that Cliff flies isn't heavy enough for Emirates. When you fill out the EK application, you have to check off hours in aircraft by MTOW. As he has been in the lighter early version DC-9s (-15s, -30s), they are below one of the unofficial cutoffs and thus time in it, in Emirates' opinion, is viewed as on par with CRJ/ERJ time. The key to getting an Emirates interview is having time in an aircraft that is a true 100 seater +. Some RJ or corporate guys have gotten through, but many haven't.....with time in that type of aircraft it is luck of the draw.

The whole crux of Cliff's dilemma is that he's seeking a job that will allow him to commute from GRB, a decent quality of life, and a decent paycheck. You can take a gamble that things are going to morph into something promising (like Allegiant) or you can go for a known known, an AirTran/Atlas/Delta type job. He likely doesn't want to go to the regionals (sweatshop) or gamble on an upstart that may or may not work (in 2004/2005, Independence Air was seen by many as having a better chance of success than Allegiant).

Cliff's qualifications are fine, its more that he (and thousands of others) are victims of the economy. There just aren't a lot of good jobs to go around, and those that exist are ultra-competitive. There are a huge number of furloughed guys from UAL, CO, AK, NetJets, Flex, thousands of RJ Captains with multi-thousand hours of turbine PIC time.....it ain't easy.....

Lastly - Cliff knows his stuff. You attack his credibility because he is *not* a DL 777 CA. I would suggest to you that he is better informed than 98% of the other guys out there. He is a job seeker using every avenue to research things and he is in tune with global trends and job prospects on several continents (North America, Africa, Middle East, Asia), which is more than I can say for you. And he's approachable with that knowledge, using it to add valued content to threads here and elsewhere. Would you rather ATPCliff keep it all stuffed all inside of him? I for one certainly appreciate what he has to say.

As for the interview results, that will come. He's got a network of friends and contacts - something will materialize. Don't take job interviews that you don't get personally. Sometimes it is just beyond your control. The important thing is, he's setting himself up well for that next step, which is a job with a quality operator, be it Emirates, Qatar, or with a US-based ACMI carrier.

Believe me, Cliff's time will come. He's a good guy with a GREAT attitude towards this job who brings a blue-collar try-hard approach to work each day. If he were a boxer, his name would be Rocky. How can you not cheer for the guy.

FCN

 

[CommanderHoek]

OK FCN I hear ya but I still disagree. Go read his post on PPRune (which was quickly corrected). He posted more misinformation AND lead people to study the wrong material which would have failed any candidate, luckily the information was corrected. I too have a friend at Qatar airways and I will not post here what he has said. PEOPLE OFTEN HANG THEMSELVES MORE THAN NOT! Funny Cathay Pacific, from what I have heard, hired a bunch of RJ guys too, they fly 747's and 777's.

Could it be possible that ATPCLiff just doesnt have the skills to get hired?

He spends a lot of time on all the boards. I counted 4 boards so far. If he is flying so much, where does he find time to post? If he is in Africa were is he getting the info? What happened at USAJet? Allegaint would be perfect for him and he could be home and have jumpseat and maybe even on his way to 757 school now.

GREAT LAKES WOULD NOT EVEN HIRE HIM! Come on now.

Sorry, I am just calling BS on this.

As far as me, I know ten times what he knows, I just do not pretend to be an expert and mislead people. Plus airlines can find out who you are and don't like their info being posted. I think most airlines know who he is and are just staying away.

I am not the only who thinks this just the only one saying so.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

OK FCN I hear ya but I still disagree. Go read his post on PPRune (which was quickly corrected). He posted more misinformation AND lead people to study the wrong material which would have failed any candidate, luckily the information was corrected.
Of course sometimes I post information that is incorrect, because things change:
I was told by a EK recruiter/pilot in April that the weight limit was lowered to 10 tonnes...just the other days someone posted that there was some type of limit of 30 tonnes...something changed since I had the info I was given.
I was told by people who worked for National that the 757 pilots would be based overseas and not commuting...U said the info was wrong...it may be now.
Sometimes I post what I read on other boards, because not everyone is on all the boards...some people don't even know about boards like pprune...when I do so I state "from another post", or "I read on another board"...if I think the info is WRONG, I won't post it.
I don't post stuff that is wrong on purpose.

It sounds like you know a LOT about hiring and what is going on, and I encourage you to share that information with all of us...we can always use more information.

I too have a friend at Qatar airways and I will not post here what he has said.
I don't know anyone at Qatar, just me some of their pilots on the road and talked to them about working at Qatar. Overall, the guys I have talked to about Qatar were positive on the company.

PEOPLE OFTEN HANG THEMSELVES MORE THAN NOT! Funny Cathay Pacific, from what I have heard, hired a bunch of RJ guys too, they fly 747's and 777's.
Sometimes my freinds tell me stuff, and then say not to post it...I don't.
If they tell me something, with no restrictions on their part, I may post it, but I just say "a freind", "a guy I know"...no identifying information

Could it be possible that ATPCLiff just doesnt have the skills to get hired?
DEFINITELY POSSIBLE.
I have been turned down after an interview by 7 aviation organizations.
I have been hired by 3 aviation organizations, after an interview.
I have been offered 4 other flying jobs, for which I did not interview.
I have also been offered a job by 2 aviation organizations, after interviewing with them and having been turned down...they changed their minds.
So, in total, I have been turned down 7 times, and offered a postion 9 times, so I'm batting about .500. I know of some who are at 1.000. They interviewed for a USAF pilot slot, got it, then interviewed at DAL (or AA/UAL/FedEx, etc.) and got it, so they are 2 for 2. Better than me!

He spends a lot of time on all the boards. I counted 4 boards so far.
I'm on a lot more than 4 boards. Other than responding to this post, the past few days, I have not been on very much, as I am studying.

If he is flying so much, where does he find time to post?
It depends....May I flew 71 hours, the 2nd highest month ever for me...one of my problems! Last month only about 30 hours...only flown once the last 4 days...here in Togo no family, and not a lot to do, so I spend a lot of time on the internet.
If he is in Africa were is he getting the info?
Mostly from people I know...

What happened at USAJet?
They furloughed 75% of the DC-9 pilots, after shutting down the Falcons, furloughing ALL of those guys, and then furloughing some of the DC-9 guys earlier.

Allegaint would be perfect for him and he could be home and have jumpseat and maybe even on his way to 757 school now.
Yes, it would be nice. My resume has been in for over a year, and a former USAJ guy, who is now a Capt there, has been trying to help me.

GREAT LAKES WOULD NOT EVEN HIRE HIM! Come on now.
I was called, out of the blue, more than once, to start class as a Street Captain for them. Since I had not flown in 10 years, had never flown a turboprop, never flown -121, and never been a fixed-wing Captain, I did not think it made any sense. I pointed this out to the Lakes recruiter, but he didn't care...he kept calling, but I didn't go to class there....maybe a bad decision for my career?...who knows, but it didn't make sense to me at the time.

Sorry, I am just calling BS on this.

As far as me, I know ten times what he knows, I just do not pretend to be an expert and mislead people.
I don't pretend to be an expert. There are TONS of guys, like yourself, who know a lot more than me. Some of them NEVER post on any message board, they just read the information. I think that is not very helpful, because if we all did this, there would be no information on these boards to read.
I do not try and mislead people. If someone corrects my "wrong" information, I say thanks, and move on.

Plus airlines can find out who you are and don't like their info being posted. I think most airlines know who he is and are just staying away.
I have had my employers tell me stuff that is not to be released to the public. I never post anything that I am not supposed to, either by request of my company, or by request of a friend. I have been to an interview where they asked us not to post anything, or tell our friends what went on. I listened to them and did not release any information...

I am not the only who thinks this just the only one saying so.

CommanderHoek: I wish you well, and hope your avaition career is easier than mine has been! So far, I have liked it a lot, overall, and I am really excited about my future prospects and upcoming jobs.
If you need any help with anything, I will try to help you out.
Good luck, and God Bless!

cliff
LFW

CommanderHoekOK

 

[FCNelson]

Hi!



CommanderHoek: I wish you well, and hope your avaition career is easier than mine has been! So far, I have liked it a lot, overall, and I am really excited about my future prospects and upcoming jobs.
If you need any help with anything, I will try to help you out.
Good luck, and God Bless!

cliff
LFW

CommanderHoekOK

CommanderHoek: You've given ATPCliff every reason in the world to hate you. You've insulted him personally and professionally, not to mention questioned his integrity. Yet he doesn't even snap. How can you say anything bad about as even-keeled a guy as ATPCliff.

I think the problem is you, my friend.

FCN

 

[FCNelson]

My comments in bold

Quote:
OK FCN I hear ya but I still disagree. Go read his post on PPRune (which was quickly corrected). He posted more misinformation AND lead people to study the wrong material which would have failed any candidate, luckily the information was corrected.
Of course sometimes I post information that is incorrect, because things change:
I was told by a EK recruiter/pilot in April that the weight limit was lowered to 10 tonnes...just the other days someone posted that there was some type of limit of 30 tonnes...something changed since I had the info I was given.

Fact: EK's hour requirements are constantly in flux. Occasionally it dips, but generally you need to be current in a jet of 30+ tons. Sometimes due to supply and demand it dips, like it did in 06/07 and just recently. But with them you never really know. The information Cliff posted was about as factual as can be expected.


I was told by people who worked for National that the 757 pilots would be based overseas and not commuting...U said the info was wrong...it may be now.

I have also heard that National is looking to base their 747 and 757 guys overseas, likely in the Middle East.


Sometimes I post what I read on other boards, because not everyone is on all the boards...some people don't even know about boards like pprune...when I do so I state "from another post", or "I read on another board"...if I think the info is WRONG, I won't post it.
I don't post stuff that is wrong on purpose.

It sounds like you know a LOT about hiring and what is going on, and I encourage you to share that information with all of us...we can always use more information.

I too have a friend at Qatar airways and I will not post here what he has said.
I don't know anyone at Qatar, just me some of their pilots on the road and talked to them about working at Qatar. Overall, the guys I have talked to about Qatar were positive on the company.

PEOPLE OFTEN HANG THEMSELVES MORE THAN NOT! Funny Cathay Pacific, from what I have heard, hired a bunch of RJ guys too, they fly 747's and 777's.
Sometimes my freinds tell me stuff, and then say not to post it...I don't.
If they tell me something, with no restrictions on their part, I may post it, but I just say "a freind", "a guy I know"...no identifying information

Unlike Emirates, Cathay Pacific has never been too hung up on what size aircraft you come from. I've heard of guys come from flight instructing in a general aviation environment and gotten hired on as SO's at CX. I've known guys who flew Beech 99s in rag-tag bush operators who got hired at Cathay.

Could it be possible that ATPCLiff just doesnt have the skills to get hired?
DEFINITELY POSSIBLE.
I have been turned down after an interview by 7 aviation organizations.
I have been hired by 3 aviation organizations, after an interview.
I have been offered 4 other flying jobs, for which I did not interview.
I have also been offered a job by 2 aviation organizations, after interviewing with them and having been turned down...they changed their minds.
So, in total, I have been turned down 7 times, and offered a postion 9 times, so I'm batting about .500. I know of some who are at 1.000. They interviewed for a USAF pilot slot, got it, then interviewed at DAL (or AA/UAL/FedEx, etc.) and got it, so they are 2 for 2. Better than me!

No shame in not getting hired. I've been turned down from plenty of places myself. Interviewing is a skill and an art form.....I've known lots of good guys who weren't hired when I figured for sure they were a cinch.


He spends a lot of time on all the boards. I counted 4 boards so far.
I'm on a lot more than 4 boards. Other than responding to this post, the past few days, I have not been on very much, as I am studying.

If he is flying so much, where does he find time to post?
It depends....May I flew 71 hours, the 2nd highest month ever for me...one of my problems! Last month only about 30 hours...only flown once the last 4 days...here in Togo no family, and not a lot to do, so I spend a lot of time on the internet.
If he is in Africa were is he getting the info?
Mostly from people I know...

Connections, connections, connections.....those will pay off. Cliff will get chances thru them and he will get jobs. That is how this profession works.

What happened at USAJet?
They furloughed 75% of the DC-9 pilots, after shutting down the Falcons, furloughing ALL of those guys, and then furloughing some of the DC-9 guys earlier.

Again - not Cliff's fault. Wrong place at the wrong time.

Allegaint would be perfect for him and he could be home and have jumpseat and maybe even on his way to 757 school now.
Yes, it would be nice. My resume has been in for over a year, and a former USAJ guy, who is now a Capt there, has been trying to help me.

Cliff = staying in touch with his network. Good things will happen. Sometimes it has to be hard to believe, but with a positive approach and a good attitude, he will be rewarded.

GREAT LAKES WOULD NOT EVEN HIRE HIM! Come on now.
I was called, out of the blue, more than once, to start class as a Street Captain for them. Since I had not flown in 10 years, had never flown a turboprop, never flown -121, and never been a fixed-wing Captain, I did not think it made any sense. I pointed this out to the Lakes recruiter, but he didn't care...he kept calling, but I didn't go to class there....maybe a bad decision for my career?...who knows, but it didn't make sense to me at the time.

Sorry, I am just calling BS on this.

In 1999/2000/2001 Great Lakes was bottom of the barrel desperate. To their HR folks, a guy with Cliff's military experience would have been a great addition to the team. Street captains were not unheard of at Great Lakes, Mesa, and a few other similar operators.

As far as me, I know ten times what he knows, I just do not pretend to be an expert and mislead people.
I don't pretend to be an expert. There are TONS of guys, like yourself, who know a lot more than me. Some of them NEVER post on any message board, they just read the information. I think that is not very helpful, because if we all did this, there would be no information on these boards to read.
I do not try and mislead people. If someone corrects my "wrong" information, I say thanks, and move on.

I don't interpret Cliff's posts as coming from a "know-it-all" expert. He is a salt-of-the-earth humble man just trying to find his way in a very challenging job market. He is encouraging of others, is quick to pass along information that he knows, and provides good insights into what is happenings. Maybe you're taking what he is saying the wrong way.

Plus airlines can find out who you are and don't like their info being posted. I think most airlines know who he is and are just staying away.
I have had my employers tell me stuff that is not to be released to the public. I never post anything that I am not supposed to, either by request of my company, or by request of a friend. I have been to an interview where they asked us not to post anything, or tell our friends what went on. I listened to them and did not release any information...

I am not the only who thinks this just the only one saying so.

I would trust Cliff's judgement on this. He's served in the military, had a security clearance, and knows the distinction between what is company confidential and what can be talked about on the internet.

FCN

 

[CommanderHoek]

Ok but I stand by what I say! I have my reasons. I am just not buying it! This is not about one post, it's about all of them! Oh and USAJet hired people recently on the DC9/MD80. ATPCliff, you want to go home, so can you not go back to USAJet? If you were furloughed, do you not have recall rights? Were you/are you not a DC9 Captain? Are you or are you not flying the MD80? If you are so honest, whom do you work for and why not supply that info to help guys? I know a lot of DHL/Airborne 9 drivers looking for work.

FCNelson: You said you never met this guy so really how can you know what he is possibly about? Do you know how many on these boards are really full of S$%&.

We can do this all day guys. I have read most of your posts ATPCLiff, 9 out 10 times they are incorrect. I think you are hiding something and are not telling the complete story.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Ok but I stand by what I say! I have my reasons. I am just not buying it! This is not about one post, it's about all of them!
I don't think you have read all my posts, since I have been on flightinfo since 2000, plus, you aren't on a lot of the message boards that I am on.

Oh and USAJet hired people recently on the DC9/MD80. ATPCliff, you want to go home, so can you not go back to USAJet?
It is rather compllicated. We were non-union, so we don't have recall rights. I talked to USAJ about coming back: Currently, I am making more now as FO here, than I would as Capt there. There is no schedule at USAJ (you are assigned a block of 8 days off for the month). You have no guaranteed days off. So far, I have decided to stay here and not try and go back. The Chief Pilot told me he had no problem with me coming back.

I was offered an interview at Colgan, ONLY because my buddy is there, as they were not real excited about hiring me...said I have too much time and experience to stay. I have not gone to the interview yet, because the pay is so low. Depending on what happens, I may ask to be interviewed in the future. For my family's situation right now, the reduced pay compared to Africa was not worth being based in the US.

If you were furloughed, do you not have recall rights? Were you/are you not a DC9 Captain?
I was a -9 Capt for 3 months at USAJ. Here I have been paid as an FO since day one. I had a number of flights as Capt with the acting Chief Pilot here, but since he had to stop flying, I have been flying as FO. I was told by the MD I could upgrade to capt when I got 1000 on type...pretty close right now.

Are you or are you not flying the MD80?
We do not have an MD yet. I did my differences training at Higher Power in Jan. When I got here in May I was told I would probably go to France as MD FO when that plane started operating, as, at the time, I was one of the few people here with MD training, and they wanted FAA licenses for that operation.

If you are so honest, whom do you work for and why not supply that info to help guys?
I work for Tamarind Cargo (it was called J&V Aviation when I joined). We have two DC-9s that are ACMI for two different companies (Astral Aviation and AfricaWest Cargo). Currently, we have 10 pilots, 8 for the DC-9 and 2 for the MD-83, which is coming out of C-check. I am now at the Lome, Togo base. We have cargo coming in via Southern, from Leige, and from DXB via EK, which operates to LOS.

I know a lot of DHL/Airborne 9 drivers looking for work.
I know several of them also, and was trying to help them get on here last year. Now it is difficult, for they want new hires to pay for all of their own training and license conversion. Conversion takes about 4 months for US guys. Also, the living and working conditions here, compared to what Americans are used, to, are poor. I cannot recommend this job to anyone. That is why I am not planning on staying long-term. I was hoping to get a US job after my first tour...didn't happen, so working on it again after this tour.
If someone wants to send a resume, this guy is the Managing Director:
http://www.atbelgium.com/pages/contacts.html
AfricaWest:
http://www.africawestcargo.com/
Astral:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_Aviation

FCNelson: You said you never met this guy so really how can you know what he is possibly about? Do you know how many on these boards are really full of S$%&.

We can do this all day guys. I have read most of your posts ATPCLiff, 9 out 10 times they are incorrect. I think you are hiding something and are not telling the complete story.

I "hide" a lot of stuff, like things about my family, stuff in my life that has happened to me that is not relevant to flying, etc. I am hoping to get a good job in the future, and do not want to discuss it on the internet.

Namaste,

cliff
LFW

 

[FCNelson]

Cliff -

You're a class act. Don't change.

CommanderHoek - I'm sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.

FCN

 

[CommanderHoek]

Ok. I think we beat this to death. We all have our opinions. Just for the record ATPCliff, I dont know you but others do. I have heard a few things about you which is why I posted the things about focusing on your presentation and skills. If advice you give take some as well. You need a bit of work. I am sure when you find what may be missing success will come your way. AND GET THE HELL OUT OF AFRICA BEFORE YOU GET KILLED MAN!

 

[FCNelson]

Ok. I think we beat this to death. We all have our opinions. Just for the record ATPCliff, I dont know you but others do. I have heard a few things about you which is why I posted the things about focusing on your presentation and skills. If advice you give take some as well. You need a bit of work. I am sure when you find what may be missing success will come your way. AND GET THE HELL OUT OF AFRICA BEFORE YOU GET KILLED MAN!

Amen!

Too bad ATPCliff, you, and I couldn't meet for a cold beer or three, to discuss airlines, the industry, and interview techniques. I'm certain we'd each learn from one another, and a good time would be had by all!

FCN