Purdue flight school offers jet training

[jonjuan]

EMBRAER SELLS A PHENOM 100 JET TO PURDUE UNIVERSITY, IN THE U. S.
World’s first collegiate turbofan pilot training program obtains Embraer’s new best-in-class jet

São José dos Campos, December 15, 2009 – Embraer is pleased to announce that Purdue
University, in West Lafayette, Indiana, U.S., has purchased one Phenom 100 as part of the
Department of Aviation Technology’s fleet replacement program. The jet was chosen after an
extensive evaluation and selection process.

“The acquisition of the Phenom 100 by Purdue University is a testament to the
aircraft’s outstanding ease of operation, performance, reliability, and value,” says
Ernest Edwards, Embraer Vice President, Marketing and Sales USA, Canada, Mexico,
and the Caribbean – Executive Jets.

The Department of Aviation Technology’s
current fleet is over 10 years old and is
expected to be replaced by mid-2010.
Purdue’s partnership with Embraer, through
the acquisition of the Phenom 100 entry level
jet, will allow the university’s students the
distinction of graduating with an FAA jet
type rating that no other program provides.

“This new opportunity will permit Purdue to maintain its position at the highest level of
prominence in the global aviation education community,” says Dr. Brent D. Bowen, Professor
and Head of the Department of Aviation Technology at Purdue University. “Purdue’s already
competitive admissions standards will be enhanced by the inclusion of the Phenom 100 in the
aviation technology department.”
The fleet of aircraft selected will share a common leading-edge avionics system, so that
students will be able to progress more naturally from training planes to jets. The avionics
system of the Phenom 100 provides highly intuitive operation, because it was designed by
pilots for pilots. The high level of integration between the avionics and all other aircraft
systems guarantees that precise and updated information is always available.

The single-pilot certification of the Phenom 100 will also allow Purdue’s entry level jet to be
used for business travel, with students copiloting those flights under the guidance of a pilot-
in-command instructor, thus enhancing their educational experience.

will allow the university’s students the
distinction of graduating with an FAA jet
type rating that no other program provides.
Yeah, as no other program provides a type rating for aircraft less than 12.5K. lololol.....

 

[CX880]

Aren't spare CRJs or ERJs in the desert cheaper than a brand new Phenom these days??

 

[jonjuan]

Aren't spare CRJs or ERJs in the desert cheaper than a brand new Phenom these days??

The Phenom 100, being less than 12,500, can have be flown single pilot, low time all day long. Your comment is akin to saying "Can't rj pilots fly 757s for the same rate?"

 

[Lynxman]

This is basically PFT. My school does the same program and they call it the charter course. You pay outrageous amounts of money to fly school officials around that need to do university business on your dime, all so that they can say they have charter experience. Gimme a break!

 

[2.71828]

I think we should be advising youngin's to get a degree in a field they can get a job in i.e. (engineering, business, computer science) so they will have something to reach up to, trust me no one could give a crap about how many hours you have or an aviation tech degree outside of aviation. Have a back up plan for when you see aviation isn't all it is cracked up to be...2cents

 

[Lynxman]

^^^ Right on I graduate on saturday with a BS in aviation what a jacka$$ I feel like.

 

[chickenpilot]

The students at Purdue also fly the 2 King Airs with instructors carrying staff to meetings. The students dont pay anything extra to take this course, unlike a lot of schools that do charge.

 

[CX880]

^^^ Right on I graduate on saturday with a BS in aviation what a jacka$$ I feel like.

Tell us, did they teach you guys how to make money in Aviation?

Is it still Product + ? = Profits

 

[CX880]

The Phenom 100, being less than 12,500, can have be flown single pilot, low time all day long. Your comment is akin to saying "Can't rj pilots fly 757s for the same rate?"

I think you misunderstood my point of them being able to get an actual used CRJ2 or ERJ for cheaper since no one wants them, rather than brand new Phenom.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

This is basically PFT. My school does the same program and they call it the charter course. You pay outrageous amounts of money to fly school officials around that need to do university business on your dime, all so that they can say they have charter experience. Gimme a break!

Shows what you know of the charter course.

 

[BoilerUP]

This has been going on for over two decades at Purdue with the C90s, then the Diamond, then the B200s, then the Beechjet.

Students haven't paid a dime for any of the experience in any of those airplanes, and the only thing they're going to have to pay for with the Phenom is the EMB-100 type rating (details of the type course including cost are still being worked out).

And NO, a used CRJ-200 or E135/145 is NOT cheaper to acquire than a new Phenom 100 (which lists for roughly $3.6M, and you can bet Purdue didn't pay sticker price).

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Who hires into the Phenom?

So your expensive type rating in a VLJ has gotten you a job offer flying the same cessnas and pipers as your college roommate who saved his/her money in order to buy beer.

 

[BoilerUP]

Who hires into the Phenom?

So your expensive type rating in a VLJ has gotten you a job offer flying the same cessnas and pipers as your college roommate who saved his/her money in order to buy beer.

I've had similar discussions myself with the faculty member who has been spearheading this program. While I commend his progressive direction for the program (which has languished somewhat for the last decade) cost is obviously a HUGE concern and I've been told that they're working for Phenom type to be a minimal increase over the sum of the B727 simulator courses.

I suppose we'll see...

Outside of dispatch reliability & time between maintenance events, a big reason the Phenom was chosen (and the Cirrus SR20 to replace the Piper Warriors) was the ability of the G1000 to collect dozens of data parameters to be used for research...which is the name of the $$$ game at universities around the country these days.

 

[transampilot]

Flying the Eclipse the burn is 350-400 lbs total an hour with PW-610's. The Phenom burns slightly more with the PW615's I'm guessing ~ 400-500lbs an hour. I have never flown a CRJ or ERJ but aren't they more like 3000 lbs an hour. Big cost saving there if it is true.

 

[Jetjockey]

^^^ Right on I graduate on saturday with a BS in aviation what a jacka$$ I feel like.

No, that part won't come until you get your first job for $21,000 and you realize you paid over $100,000 in educational fees to get it.

Not a rip on you, or the University. Just a general observation on how screwed up this industry is.

 

[LearLove]

The students at Purdue also fly the 2 King Airs with instructors carrying staff to meetings. The students dont pay anything extra to take this course, unlike a lot of schools that do charge.

Your students in the right seat are ballast. they should take the (I'd bet around 20K) $$$$$ they are going to spend on this "type rating" and by Cessna 150 time. At 75/hour rental 20K would be around 250+ hours of PIC and skills like simple VISUAL APPROACHES and judgement/decision making that you are not going to get in some less than 20 hour simulator or "gemni" program in the VLJ. Plus the type is useless at 200 hours anyway.

Geesus Krist - can't people do it the right way. The hard way instead of taking the short cut all the time.

Student to airline WAY #1. Get comm/mel/cfi, instruct (traffic/patrol/banner ect.), fly 135, get 2000 to 3000 hours of teaching and flying pax/freight where you make the calls and run the show. Learn how to deal with checkrides (read 135 SIC and PIC and ATP rides).

Experience dealing with wx when you have to go in an aircraft that needs skill (read GA piston prop) to fly in WX and adverse conditions. Learn how to deal with a boss (read all 135 owners) that pushes you into situations that either bust open or push FAA regs and test the limits of your aircraft capabilities. Develop customer service skills dealing with wealthy pax who don't get told very often they can't do this or that or freight skeds that require demanding ontime performance.

Student to airline WAY #2. Go to college, study something other than "Pro Pilot" (i.e. get your comm/mel for way to much $$$). Then go to the military, scare the crap out of yourself/crew/wingman while learning all the maturing skills you need as a pilot then apply to the airlines.

 

[Lynxman]

Shows what you know of the charter course.

Don't be pissed cause you spent 6 grand on flying others around for their own business.

 

[Lynxman]

No, that part won't come until you get your first job for $21,000 and you realize you paid over $100,000 in educational fees to get it.

Not a rip on you, or the University. Just a general observation on how screwed up this industry is.

I'm going a different route than the 21K a yr after paying 100K to get to where I'm at. Aviation as a major is the biggest joke I've ever heard, I can sum up the last 4 years of it over a few beers and dinner.

 

[Flyprdu]

Are they dropping 400PU for this new plane? That's kind of a size reduction.

 

[BoilerUP]

Are they dropping 400PU for this new plane? That's kind of a size reduction.

Eventually...

Short term, they're getting rid of both B200s and replacing them with this single Phenom 100. 400PU goes away sometime down the road (not sure even they know a timeline yet), with hopes of another Phenom (100 or 300, which is a VAST improvement on the Beechjet).

I have no idea how they expect to replace the lift of both King Airs with a single 5 passenger jet...but they'll also have two FIKI Cirrus SR-22s in the new training fleet that one can only imagine will be used to supplement moving lower-level folks around the state.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

There is really little value in a particular type rating unless there is a potential job in that type airplane.

A young person is better off to network until he/she learns of a potential opening. Talk with the chief pilot and offer to pay for their own type in the plane they will be flying. At least if they go for it you'll get rated and will follow-up with real experience and a job.

A type rating with no significant flight time in this or that airplane is just about worthless.

 

[CX880]

A type rating with no significant flight time in this or that airplane is just about worthless.

EXACTLY. Sadly most that will go there will not think about this before spending their money. I can tell you for sure that Sally or Suzy from HR will not give a damnn if you have a space shuttle type rating if you don't meet their posted mins, because they can't tell the difference between the space shuttle and a 152. Unlike the real world jobs, there is no use in padding pilot resumes with type ratings and CRJs and SR71s, flight time is about 90% factor in entry level flying.

 

[spitfire1500]

The students at Purdue also fly the 2 King Airs with instructors carrying staff to meetings. The students dont pay anything extra to take this course, unlike a lot of schools that do charge.

Do you guys have a guy named M. Suckow in that program

 

[BoilerUP]

Do you guys have a guy named M. Suckow in that program

Yes; in fact Suckow is the one who was spearheading this turbine/training fleet update.

 

[Tristar]

Your students in the right seat are ballast.

Not true. I went through the program, and in fact was in the initial group the went to FSI and flew the Diamond (no type rating back then). Even on the King Airs, the students flew the aircraft and received valuable instruction. As someone else put it - it's learning to operate turbine aircraft in the real world, not just an Arrow or a Barron in the training environment (a very big difference).

they should take the (I'd bet around 20K) $$$$$ they are going to spend on this "type rating" and by Cessna 150 time. At 75/hour rental 20K would be around 250+ hours of PIC and skills like simple VISUAL APPROACHES and judgement/decision making that you are not going to get in some less than 20 hour simulator or "gemni" program in the VLJ. Plus the type is useless at 200 hours anyway.

I don't know what the cost structure of this new format will be, but I didn't pay one cent for my FSI training, nor for the flight time in the King Airs and the Diamond. I did pay a small amount to be enrolled in the course - whatever the going rate was for (IIRC) 4 credit hours per semester. No flight fees or other gimmicks, and all of my expenses were paid when I was working. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. One method of developing judgment is through mentoring, which is exactly what the program has historically provided.

Yes, a type rating at 200 hours certainly won't get you into the left seat of a jet without adult supervision (or it shouldn't), but it does provide at least two credentials (in this case anyhow): One, you've passed a formal program of turbine aircraft systems and the oral exam associated therewith. Two - you can pass a check ride in a jet to ATP standards.

Geesus Krist - can't people do it the right way. The hard way instead of taking the short cut all the time.

I think I did do that. After I graduated, I spent the next several years flying piston singles, twins, and the occasionally right seat in a turboprop or light jet building time and experience. I had my ATP and over 1700 hours total time before I was hired into a Part 135 operation. I flew there for over four years and had over 4000 hours before I was hired at a 121 carrier. I didn't think that constituted shortcutting, but I may be biased. Also, for what it's worth, I never intended to be an airline pilot. Always wanted to fly corporate (Gulfstreams to be specific), but the current of life has carried me where it will and here I am (wondering what part of medical school or engineering seemed like such a bad idea at the time).

I actually do agree with the general premise of your post - if someone thinks this is a shortcut or way to get around building real experience they are absolutely wrong. I do believe there is no substitute for BOTH hours of flight time and years of experience. What the program has done in the past (and what it's continued goal should be) is to give students a jump-start on some of that by providing experience which they would normally not be able to get for several years and a thousand or more hours (in normal times, not the recent 300-hour wonder years). They can in turn draw on the experience they received from these mentors as they DO spend the next several years building more experience. Rather than have haphazard experiences from various questionable sources (such as shoddy 135 operators) as a basis for knowing how things should be done, they have experienced the right way, and can use that as a basis for further learning and discovery.

 

[wlacy]

out of sympathy I am golfing buddies with this old, grumpy fellow who has been flying for Purdue for many years. His love is the Turbine Flight Ops program (king air and B400). You should hear some of the things he has to say about this new-fangled light jet Purdue is acquiring and the people "spearheading" the process. Most of my flying boilermaker friends talk about these things and cannot picture some kid hopping into a beat-up 152 or 310 to instruct and make one's way into this tough entry-level after flying around in a glass-panel cirrus.

Perhaps I may have become jaded after a few years of flying a piston aero commander in the middle of the night but I sure as heck did not put all my eggs into one basket after spending and enormous sum for a Purdue education. I've done everything under the sun even at the ripe age of 23. flown skydivers, traffic watch, currently flying checks....its the right way to go outside of a military path and without influential connections. Marketing a light jet type to new pilots is a bogus scheme in my book.

 

[Tristar]

To clarify - I'm not familiar with how this change is being implemented and marketed. If it's how I fear it is, then I agree it is going down the completely wrong path and doing a great disservice to both the students and what has long been an excellent program.

My previous post was intended to point out that there can be legitimate use of such aircraft in a collegiate flight training program.

I know the grumpy golfer of whom you speak. While I haven't talked to him in quite a while, I think I share his concerns for where the program is headed.

Beyond all of that, as much as I enjoyed the aviation program and I did get a very good education out of it - I really wish I had gone to Purdue in pharmacy (if I could have gotten accepted) and taken the flight courses as a minor. Given what this career has become over the last 20 years (and where it appears to be headed for the foreseeable future), I truly can't see why anyone would go into it (which truly saddens me, it SHOULD be a great career). It's just insane.

I probably need to make a pilgrimage to Lafayette soon and see if I can't hook up with TQC, and RMG. I'd really like to hear their thoughts on all of this.