Public Perception

[VampyreGTX]

I was just arguing with two business men on the train to my finance job about the airlines. We started on the fact that United Exec's got millions in bonuses. I stayed out until one of them started saying how pilots are overpaid glorified bus-drivers. I couldn't believe how long it took me to make them believe me that the 'average' pilot salary wasn't almost 200K, that the new pilot for a regional starts at 20K if they're lucky and that most of my friends are on food-stamps. They kept saying that their's no way they make that little.

Do I think there should be such a huge disparity between a newbie pilot and a 20 year senior pilot, I don't know. But the 30% paycuts etc I think should be staggered. How much does that pay cut hurt someone making 30K dropping to 20K versus someone making 300K dropping to 200K.

I agreed with them that the bonuses to the execs is complete crap, what other job do you get a bonus for losing less money then expected? Oh, you only lost 900 million this year instead of 1 billion?! Here's a 10 millions bonus! In my business, it's you lost 10 million? You're fired!

Just my .02, but it's interesting to see the publics perception of the airline industry. I can't believe so many people who do nothing more than ever sit in the back of the plane think that being in that cockpit is such an easy, non-stressfull, money-making job.

 

[Flying Illini]

Yup, it's frustrating. And if you let it get to you, it'll drive you crazy how misinformed the general public is. If, during the course of my conversations with others, pilot pay comes up (which you would be surprised how often it seems to), I give them the ugly truth. My fiance hears this at work all the time, "Your fiance is a pilot? You must just be working for fun then!" It's definitely frustrating. Oh well.

 

[mach tuck]

Amen sister! I had a passenger ask me over the Christmas holiday what it was like to have to be away from home and my family during the holidays. After I told him, he says, "That's why you guys get paid the big bucks." I almost crapped myself. If the general public knew how much we get paid, they would probably tip us instead of their taxi driver. But tipping is another thread in itself.


mach

 

[Dash8]

I hate people...

 

[inline]

I was just arguing with two business men on the training how pilots are overpaid glorified bus-drivers.

I'll bet most municipal bus drivers make way more than your average RJF.O.( and some capts) Not to mention all the bennies that gov.employeesget. No checkrides, easy medicals, virtually impossible to get fired.No mandatory age 60 retirement.

 

[jetexas]

The airlines, or perhaps the unions?, have done a pretty good job at confusing the public or masking low pay. For one, the payscales.

FO ___ starts out making $22.00 an hour. 99.9% of the public who hears this thinks "well, that's not too bad, my brother, the pipe fitters apprentice, only made $16.00 an hour when he started out!"

So, you try to explain that the maximum we can fly is 100 hours a month. Without listening to the explanation, most people will think "100 hours a month?? That's it? Boy, I wish I could work only 25 hours a week!"

Also, the airlines will always throw in more when this hints at or becomes public in the press. "Yeah, but that pilot tops out at $90,000 a year". Again...the public..."$90,000 a year! Wow, I wish I could make that!!" They don't understand that you may make less than 40K/year for 10-20 years! Most guys making 200K/year were hired into a major in their early 20's and are now getting ready to retire. A mere fraction of the work force. Again, not understood.

I have had many people that just REFUSE to believe I make so little. They pass it off as nonsense or a bad joke. THAT's how deeply engrained this is. I wonder when/if it will ever change? Even if the public did know how little pilots make these days, they probably would not do anything about it, nor care. Supply and Demand.

 

[avbug]

Pilots are overpaid bus drivers...and a dime a dozen. And that would be fine, except that all too often, pilots are underpaid bus drivers.

I really don't care about the public perception; it's meaningless. Image is nothing (obey your thirst). But like the man said, show us the money. As good ole' fox moulder would say...it's out there.


Somewhere.


Far from here...

 

[English]

I'll go with us being glorified bus drivers, but definitely not overpaid.

 

[learflyer]

It's time to call Barbara Walters and have her do a story on us on 20/20 to get the word out! Have it air directly after the superbowl so the whole world knows how much pilots really make.

 

[avbug]

No, don't let the secret out. That's what the world wants. Or so the germans would have us believe...

 

[Buschpilot]

I was thinking about this the other day (again). Illini is right, itdoes come up in conversation more than I would like. I always feel likeI'm griping (I guess I kinda am), but more importantly, I think peopleneed to understand what the airline life is REALLY like. Some of thelooks of surprise I get amaze me. People really don't know. Avbug sayspublic perception means nothing, and I disagree. Look at the media.Never once have they mentioned anything other than the top pay tiers atour 'legacy' airlines. I sent a nice email to a reporter at a largenewspaper last year and corrected his statement(s) that 'abc airlinepilots make$180k, and only work 80 hours a month'. Whether he trulybelieved that, or was writing for shock value, I don't know, but Icalled him on it. His reply was actually very kind and professional,but never did I see another article from him (or anyone else) statingwhat is really involved. The point is that people read/see this, andfeel no pity for what is happening to the industry. Now, flip the coin.If they did know all the facts about pay, benefits,schedules (whe elsecan work 16 hours a day for 4 hours pay????) and believed it, theirperception MAY change. People MAY be willing to pay a few bucks morefor a ticket. Or people may say 'no way am I flying thatairline...those guys make less than retail employees!' (i think Icertainly would if wasn't in this business and knew how professionaland skilled pilots are).

Of course, the union contracts, rigs, etc make it no better. I have noidea what I make until w-2's come out. People say how much do you make?I say $30/hour. They say, that's not bad. I say, wait, it gets better.Then I end up trying to explain duty rigs, min guarantees, TAFB, etcand you can literally watch their eyes glaze over as my $30/hr shrinksto about $10 a real hour.

Point I'm blabbing to make is that it is everyones fault, from thecompanies to the unions, to the media, to public perception, to themarketplace (oh, and lets not forget the RLA from 1930-something thatgoverns us). I don't know what the solution is, but we need to dosomething. I'm getting tired of worrying about what is going to happenif my car breaks, and then turning around and hearing how 'cool' it isto be a pilot and to have all that time off and make decent coin. Maybesomeday all that good/cool stuff will be true. But that day isn'ttoday, and the way life is headed it may never come for a great manypilots. You can argue that it will get better in time, and I have nodoubt it will, but that time went from 1-2 years to well over 7 in mycase. It may no longer be worth it, because not only do I WANT toretire someday, I WILL retire someday. 401(k)/pension/IRA or not, I'mout of a job in 30 years.

If you see a flawed news article, email a constuctive letter to thewriter. Any good journalist will listen and maybe learn. 9time out of ten they interview management types and get thismisinformation. Or worse, they scour the net for info. Setthem straight in a professional manner. Maybe it'll come backaround. Ignore the shock jock writers we've been hearing about.

Get involved in the union. Don't do it to throw rocks at management, but do it to better the system.

Write your congress person or senator. Some of these silly airline rules need to change.

Write for publications. There is an editorial section of almostevery newspaper out there. The best one I ever saw was a FlightAttendant that wrote a wonderful article (not a letter!) abouthow the industry is changing her life for the worse. It gotprinted in a major metropolitan paper and I'm sure that made animpression for folks.

Anyway, I better not rant anymore. I'm gonna start soundingbitter and unhappy, which mostly isn't true (only sometimes)

 

[Buschpilot]

Man, I even edited that twice, and the spaces are still missing!!! My appologies to the editing police out there.....

B

 

[Flying Illini]

I see dead people, er, I mean, I see spaces.

 

[avbug]

You are really sure that telling your neighbor and writing congress is going to bring you the rainfall of money you want? You really think that the public cares what you make? I don't care what you make. Why should the public care?

The darndest thing is that with tusnami's obliterating tens of thousands of lives, with starvation rampant thorughout the world, with the unemployment problems we face in our own socieity, the high illiteracy rate, the gang wars, cancer, and so many other issues, what we really need right now is to rally congress and the american public to make sure that airline pilots make more money. I'm sure the media and special interest groups everywhere will drop what they're doing, and will be all over that.

Educate the public. Don't let them get away with a misconception about you. You're the most important thing in their lives, and they have absolutely no right to think you earn more than they do. Or to go on about their lives until you earn what you feel you should. After all, you took the job knowing what you'd make. You made this your career, but dammit, you shouldn't have to live with that decision, and it's the responsibility of every red blooded citizen, every elected official, to see that you get what you think you have coming to you.

It's a tough job. The hard physical labor, getting into that shepskin padded seat every day. Lifting a checklist. Walking up the stairs to the jetway. Ouch. It makes the arches burn, the back ache. Then there's getting out of the seat at the end of a trip, and the turning. Always a chance of popping a vertebrae. Yet you do it without complaint, day in and day out, fifteen days out of every month. Or more. Don't even mention the exposure to gamma radiation at altitude, the galley food, the bad coffee, and the weather.

Folks who work in steel mills, gas stations, driving a cab, roping cattle, riviting the aircraft you fly, they just don't appreciate you or what you go through, and that's gotta change. They need to see your hardships in order to understand how easy their lives are. Those who work two full time jobs to make ends meet, they just don't understand your trials, your tribulations, and we need to enlist the help of the media in getting the message out. Airline pilots are people too, and the world has GOT to understand what it's like to be an airline pilot...perhaps the toughest, hardest, most underappreciated, underpaid group of suffering pathetic masses in the workforce. No, in the world.

Write the congressmen. And congresswomen. Write the media. Tell your neighbor. Every one of them is standing by like a coiled spring; they're just right there, desperate for you to ask so that they can help. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they didn't offer you ten percent of their own income just to right this terrible injustice. Good idea there. I'm sure the public at large is there for your support, if only they can be made to understand.

Good luck with that.

 

[flyifrvfr]

In my opinion, pilot pay will never be what it once was. Airlines are asking for pilots to accept pay cuts or face loosing their jobs altogether. I think the pilots who took the pay cuts actually did themselves a diservice. The pay cuts alone will not be enough for a financially troubled airline to remain in business.

US Airways is pretty much on its deathbed with Delta not far behind. If I were a pilot flying for either airline and was asked to take a pay cut to remain in business, I would have called their bluff. I would have said no and if the airline went out of business than so be it. Asking pilots to take a pay cut as a result of mismanagement is rediculous, unfortunately the pilots went for it.

The only problem I see with staying firm is that if the pilots refused to sign a contract and went on strike, the government would have made them go back to work because of the companies bankruptcy. When US Airways finally does go out, and it will, the pilots and F/A's are the losers. They took the cuts and will loose their jobs anyway.

 

[TIGV]

Tee Hee......Ramen Noodles Anyone..?

Glad my degree and 15 years in the Biz can buy me such nutritious delicacies !!!!

Now...Wheres my silver spoon to eat them with ????

 

[slowto250]

But avbug.....how do you really feel ? All of us are guilty of being a little egocentric at times, as perhaps this thread starter was. I'll bet your "reality check" will have him/her thinking about their plight with a little more perspective, though. That is, if they can still live with themselves.... LOL !

 

[Don]

Any dumba$$ with enough money and time can get an ATP. Interestingly enough, at least 99% of the time any dumba$$ will suffice. And thats the problem.

I suppose we could require a Masters degree (not fair unless you have one)
I suppose we could require a 100% clean driving record (also not fair)
Perhaps a height to weight ratio (also not fair to fat dudes)

So here we are, dumba$$e$ lined up out the door to work for peanuts.

Nuts!!!

 

[bafanguy]

avbug,


Well, I have to agree with the spirit of what you say. I would've condensed your words into: nobody cares. And that's what it all amounts to in the final analysis.

I addressed this same issue in a thread about the perception of CMR pilots. I understand that each of us lives his life in his own frame of reference. And, everyone wants to be heard. Perhaps that's just part of being human.

The problem is that, as a professional group, trying to tell the public about our issues is a total waste of time. And more than that, can make us look pretty bad in the attempt. What is more fruitless or humiliating than telling your impassioned story to a deaf, disinterested ear ?

The public doesn't have the first clue about the issues facing airline pilots; every airline pilot has first-hand proof of that. I would only ask what is to be gained by telling them ? What do you expect to happen when they finally have the "truth" ? Someone in this thread said they might pay a few bucks more for their tickets if they could ride with pilots who are better treated. Well, I can only say that after 35 years of work as a line pilot, there is no doubt in my mind that all anyone cares about ( disregard everything they SAY and look at what they do with their wallets ) is a cheap airplane ride...PERIOD. Your plight isn't part of their equation.

I haven't spent my entire adult life being an airline pilot because I don't care about the profession and the problems of its practitioners. However, given the time and opportunity, the truth just speaks for itself.

Nobody cares...why should they ? Make your plans accordingly.

 

[avbug]

True enough. My comments were made largely tongue in cheek. Certainly much of the pilot pool is far underpaid for the position, and certainly for the responsibility and the liability.

I also believe that far too big a share of the industry seems to think they're worth more than they are; we are all worth only what the market will bear, at any given time. Several years ago an acquaintance who is at the top of the seniority heap in a large fractional operation was interested in bringing me on board. He provided me his access information to the pilot forum, which I visited for several months, quietly.

I saw constant complaining and whining about stocking coffee or ice, about loading a bag. People who honestly thought they ought to be paid a per bag bonus for each bag they carried each coffee pot they filled, in a citation, of all things. Some of these folks were dead-on serious in the assertion that they believed they should be making three hundred thousand dollars a year for flying that equipment, too. As if they had no idea what they'd be making when they signed up.

I'm all for people making everything they can. I'll certainly not say they're making enough, let it stop there. If they can get more, fine. But the heady attittude, the loftiness, the fact that their nose is so high in the air it's snowing on their collective brains, I find sickening. Who do they think they are that the world really cares what they're making. I certainly don't. I care what I'm making, and I strive to make more, but the honest truth is that while this is my bread and my butter, I also never started flying with the lofty misconception that I would be a multimillionaire and own three houses and a dozen cars.

We're drivers. We move things. We move people, cargo, airplanes. I do other things; I treat crops, seed, fertalize crops. I fight fires. I do specialty assignments. I fly people around and push buttons and fly from waypoint to waypoint. I teach. Yippee-ta-do-da. I'm also a dime a dozen, and certainly don't see myself raking three hundred grand a year...and I'm under no misconception that if I got killed on the job tomorrow, anybody would care or think about it a day later. That's just life.

Yes, pay could be higher. But public perception means nothing. Your post is spot-on correct. We knew about the job when we took it; time to go to work and move on.

Who really cares about the Jonses?