Public Perception

[TIGV]

Tee Hee......Ramen Noodles Anyone..?

Glad my degree and 15 years in the Biz can buy me such nutritious delicacies !!!!

Now...Wheres my silver spoon to eat them with ????

 

[slowto250]

But avbug.....how do you really feel ? All of us are guilty of being a little egocentric at times, as perhaps this thread starter was. I'll bet your "reality check" will have him/her thinking about their plight with a little more perspective, though. That is, if they can still live with themselves.... LOL !

 

[Don]

Any dumba$$ with enough money and time can get an ATP. Interestingly enough, at least 99% of the time any dumba$$ will suffice. And thats the problem.

I suppose we could require a Masters degree (not fair unless you have one)
I suppose we could require a 100% clean driving record (also not fair)
Perhaps a height to weight ratio (also not fair to fat dudes)

So here we are, dumba$$e$ lined up out the door to work for peanuts.

Nuts!!!

 

[bafanguy]

avbug,


Well, I have to agree with the spirit of what you say. I would've condensed your words into: nobody cares. And that's what it all amounts to in the final analysis.

I addressed this same issue in a thread about the perception of CMR pilots. I understand that each of us lives his life in his own frame of reference. And, everyone wants to be heard. Perhaps that's just part of being human.

The problem is that, as a professional group, trying to tell the public about our issues is a total waste of time. And more than that, can make us look pretty bad in the attempt. What is more fruitless or humiliating than telling your impassioned story to a deaf, disinterested ear ?

The public doesn't have the first clue about the issues facing airline pilots; every airline pilot has first-hand proof of that. I would only ask what is to be gained by telling them ? What do you expect to happen when they finally have the "truth" ? Someone in this thread said they might pay a few bucks more for their tickets if they could ride with pilots who are better treated. Well, I can only say that after 35 years of work as a line pilot, there is no doubt in my mind that all anyone cares about ( disregard everything they SAY and look at what they do with their wallets ) is a cheap airplane ride...PERIOD. Your plight isn't part of their equation.

I haven't spent my entire adult life being an airline pilot because I don't care about the profession and the problems of its practitioners. However, given the time and opportunity, the truth just speaks for itself.

Nobody cares...why should they ? Make your plans accordingly.

 

[avbug]

True enough. My comments were made largely tongue in cheek. Certainly much of the pilot pool is far underpaid for the position, and certainly for the responsibility and the liability.

I also believe that far too big a share of the industry seems to think they're worth more than they are; we are all worth only what the market will bear, at any given time. Several years ago an acquaintance who is at the top of the seniority heap in a large fractional operation was interested in bringing me on board. He provided me his access information to the pilot forum, which I visited for several months, quietly.

I saw constant complaining and whining about stocking coffee or ice, about loading a bag. People who honestly thought they ought to be paid a per bag bonus for each bag they carried each coffee pot they filled, in a citation, of all things. Some of these folks were dead-on serious in the assertion that they believed they should be making three hundred thousand dollars a year for flying that equipment, too. As if they had no idea what they'd be making when they signed up.

I'm all for people making everything they can. I'll certainly not say they're making enough, let it stop there. If they can get more, fine. But the heady attittude, the loftiness, the fact that their nose is so high in the air it's snowing on their collective brains, I find sickening. Who do they think they are that the world really cares what they're making. I certainly don't. I care what I'm making, and I strive to make more, but the honest truth is that while this is my bread and my butter, I also never started flying with the lofty misconception that I would be a multimillionaire and own three houses and a dozen cars.

We're drivers. We move things. We move people, cargo, airplanes. I do other things; I treat crops, seed, fertalize crops. I fight fires. I do specialty assignments. I fly people around and push buttons and fly from waypoint to waypoint. I teach. Yippee-ta-do-da. I'm also a dime a dozen, and certainly don't see myself raking three hundred grand a year...and I'm under no misconception that if I got killed on the job tomorrow, anybody would care or think about it a day later. That's just life.

Yes, pay could be higher. But public perception means nothing. Your post is spot-on correct. We knew about the job when we took it; time to go to work and move on.

Who really cares about the Jonses?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Wake up dip$hits.

PILOTS are the only people who think PILOTS do something important.

Hence the man pays you like a chump.

You accepted your food stamp bed, enjoy it.

.

 

[Goose Egg]

bah.....

 

[Doug]

Wake up dip$hits.

PILOTS are the only people who think PILOTS do something important.

Hence the man pays you like a chump.

You accepted your food stamp bed, enjoy it.

.

Maybe you are being sarcastic, but I think that is very far from thetruth. People see the pilots as very important people, since youessentially hold that persons life in your hands. I think that iswhy people find it so hard to believe that the average pilot makes solittle. I had no idea about the pay situation until I came tothis message board, I always assumed a pilot was paid 55-60k minimum,and then went up from there.

 

[Jump Pilot]

http://www.busride.com/2004/11/Some_drivers_are_born_others_are_made.asp

http://www.greyhound.com/company/driverjobs.shtml

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

My first "professional" flying job was at FLX. They kept talking about the "Christmas Bonus Package". Come to find out--it was $50 (BEFORE TAXES), and a zerox copy of as Christmas card! The next year was 10% off coupons for Denny's--they were out of business at our location!

Tonight, I went looking for a new truck. The salesman thought he had a ringer when he found out I was a pilot, but was disappointed when I couldn't afford the $300/month payment!

 

[fastandlow]

Maybe you are being sarcastic, but I think that is very far from thetruth. People see the pilots as very important people, since youessentially hold that persons life in your hands.

Yea - so does Abdul driving your cab, Jose fixin' your hamburger at the McD's (ever hear of e-coli?), Betty filling your prescription at the pharmacy, Bill mouting the tires on your car at Sears, Jorge wiring up the new garbage disposal at your house, Leroy driving the Metro bus on your way to work, etc..........

As for the state of the situation - you got 4 choices: 1. Let free market forces equalize and distribute the jobs (and salaries) appropriately without unions, 2. strengthen and use your unions more equitably (an intelligently), 3. shut up and fly, 4. find a job that pays to your satisfaction and buy a plane with what you make.

 

[Mugs]

Just look at all the pilot mills in Florida / Arizona and the quickie type rating schools. We truly are a dime a dozen. There is nothing special or unique about what we do anymore. Those days are long gone. Each and every one of us is easily replaceable. Whenever I get the "don't the airplanes just fly themselves anyway" comment, I don't even try and defend it. I just say, "yup, it's cuz I got me one of them thar union jobs ya know." Can we start one of those pilots deserve big bucks like doctors threads now so I can have a good laugh?

 

[doh]

You gotta feed 'em what they understand. I say I have been flying 18 years and I make $36 an hour. Then I show them my last pay stub. I divide my hourly rate by 2 because I get paid pretty close to 1 for 2 (duty). The pay stub works out the same for most of them. They are pretty shocked too!

 

[Buschpilot]

You are really sure that telling your neighbor and writing congress isgoing to bring you the rainfall of money you want? You really thinkthat the public cares what you make? I don't care what you make. Whyshould the public care?

The darndest thing is that with tusnami's obliterating tens ofthousands of lives, with starvation rampant thorughout the world, withthe unemployment problems we face in our own socieity, the highilliteracy rate, the gang wars, cancer, and so many other issues, whatwe really need right now is to rally congress and the american publicto make sure that airline pilots make more money. I'm sure the mediaand special interest groups everywhere will drop what they're doing,and will be all over that.

Educate the public. Don't let them get away with a misconception aboutyou. You're the most important thing in their lives, and they haveabsolutely no right to think you earn more than they do. Or to go onabout their lives until you earn what you feel you should. After all,you took the job knowing what you'd make. You made this your career,but dammit, you shouldn't have to live with that decision, and it's theresponsibility of every red blooded citizen, every elected official, tosee that you get what you think you have coming to you.

It's a tough job. The hard physical labor, getting into that shepskinpadded seat every day. Lifting a checklist. Walking up the stairs tothe jetway. Ouch. It makes the arches burn, the back ache. Then there'sgetting out of the seat at the end of a trip, and the turning. Always achance of popping a vertebrae. Yet you do it without complaint, day inand day out, fifteen days out of every month. Or more. Don't evenmention the exposure to gamma radiation at altitude, the galley food,the bad coffee, and the weather.

Folks who work in steel mills, gas stations, driving a cab, ropingcattle, riviting the aircraft you fly, they just don't appreciate youor what you go through, and that's gotta change. They need to see yourhardships in order to understand how easy their lives are. Those whowork two full time jobs to make ends meet, they just don't understandyour trials, your tribulations, and we need to enlist the help of themedia in getting the message out. Airline pilots are people too, andthe world has GOT to understand what it's like to be an airlinepilot...perhaps the toughest, hardest, most underappreciated, underpaidgroup of suffering pathetic masses in the workforce. No, in the world.

Write the congressmen. And congresswomen. Write the media. Tell yourneighbor. Every one of them is standing by like a coiled spring;they're just right there, desperate for you to ask so that they canhelp. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they didn't offer you tenpercent of their own income just to right this terrible injustice. Goodidea there. I'm sure the public at large is there for your support, ifonly they can be made to understand.

Good luck with that.

Holy smokes man. I think your reading into this a little too much, Av. I think we can agree...to disagree.

 

[MGlobemaster]

Don't forget about us rampers loading oversized bags and de-icing airplanes in -10F. We deserve at least...150k.