PSA signs on for Jets for Jobs

[ALGFLYR]

I read on another site that the J4J TA agreement reached IS NOT subject to pilot ratification. How is it that a few people can make such important decisions for the whole group, without the groups concurrance? Do your pilots have a voice at all? This just doesn't seem right. You guys need to make some NOISE! Cannot vote on a contract -- cannot vote on this Letter of Extorsion 81 that will likely put some of your pilots on the street to make room for the mainline pilots. WTF?

 

[canadflyau]

While trying to maintain a civil tone, I want to add PDT to the way to go list! Now that PSA fell off the unified truck, PDT quickly followed by holding unspecified negotiations with USgroup in private which they would not disclose to the other WO's..

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE correct me! I want to be wrong.

United we stand.. and divided we ARE falling. So much for conference calls, and staying unified as the WO's with one voice to Ugroup.

According to the update it also stated that PSA's TA will only preserve 80 jobs, with 40 of those being downgrades. You guys sound like you had the cream of the crop representing your pilots. Again PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE respond and tell me the news update I read was mistaken.

I hope everyone takes two steps back, regroups then tries this again. ALPA would be doing everyone a favor by not signing your TA.

 

[BoredToDeath]

canadflyau,

I'm having trouble finding where all this info you posted came from. Can you post your source. The only thing I got out of the PDT hotline was that all three WO were still in negotiations. It said nothing about how many jobs would be saved or lost at PSA. Our own hotline or private web site does not state specifics, the only info I have is what I will post next.

I'll be right back.

 

[BoredToDeath]

OK I'm back, here was all the info I had and the names have been changed to protect the GUILTY:


MEC REJECTS PILOT RATIFICATION; PASSES JETS FOR JOBS

(Jun. 7) The Master Executive Council (MEC) Thursday ratified the Jets for Jobs side letter during a special meeting in the Pittsburgh International Airport. In attendance were MEC officers SMITH1, SMITH2 and SMITH3, and MEC representatives SMITH4, SMITH5, SMITH6 and SMITH7. MEC members SMITH8, SMITH9 and SMITH10 were on vacation and represented by voting proxies. At the start of the meeting, Captain SMITH7 pressed old business (Jepp-size contracts, UNKNOWN, Security) and was resisted by the MEC Chairman. The Vice President of Operations visited and hosted a Q&A session. Next, Captain SMITH7, carrying voting authorization from SMITH9 and SMITH10, proposed a motion that the pilot group be permitted to ratify the PSA Jets for Jobs side letter of agreement. MEC Chairman SMITH1 voided the SMITH9 and SMITH10 proxies because of a typo, and the measure failed. Next, the opposition proposed a motion that the MEC vote in-house to ratify Jets for Jobs. That measure passed 4-1 (yea - SMITH4, SMITH5, SMITH8 by proxy, SMITH6; nay - SMITH7). During a short recess, SMITH7 contacted vacationing SMITH10 who contacted vacationing SMITH9, and both forwarded new proxies. Next, the opposition proposed a motion to ratify the Jet for Jobs side letter. That measure passed on a roll call vote (yea 96 votes - SMITH4, SMITH5, SMITH8 by proxy, SMITH6; nay 89 votes - SMITH9 by proxy, SMITH7, SMITH10 by proxy). The MEC then closed the meeting to the public and discussed concessionary bargaining instructions with the Negotiating Committee.

Thats all I have, If any one else has hard factual info on any events that might have taken place today please chim in.

As a WO pilot I hope our MECs are not leading us down the path to becoming another low cost contract carrier. And if they are how do we stop it. Enough talk about what should have been done and more ideas on how to LEGALLY stop what is being done and take control of our WO airlines.

Together the WO are the backbone of US AIRWAYS GROUP, but only for a short time to come.

p.s. - To that one mgt. person here who knows who I am, I am in no way shape or form telling any person here to take action against any three of our WO companys that might result in any disiplinary(sp) action.

 

[surplus1]

So what you're really saying is that on a critical issues such as J4J the PSA MEC has voted to deny the PSA pilots the right to ratify their actions. Did I get that right?

If so, that really is low. If the vote count you gave is accurate, the MEC is split and the decision is being made by a majority of only 7 votes, with the pilots themselves denied the right to vote.

I hope you're wrong, 'cause if you're not, that really sucks.

PS. Why don't you put this on the General board instead of burying it in the interview section?

 

[surplus1]

Re: Surplus 1

I feel like we are being rounded up for the slaughter.

Unfortunately you are correct. The sad part is that you are helping them to slaughter you.

I understand the ALPA system. I don't want to bash you, but the truth is your pilot group has had ample time to force your MEC to adopt pilot ratification of new contracts and critical changes to your existing contract. If you did not do that, guess who's to blame.

Typical apathy on the part of line pilots is what allows MECs to get away with stuff like this. It's too late now, but if there is another time down the road you need to get off your duff and force the MEC to adopt pilot ratification.

If your representatives won't do it, replace them with representatives that will. Unfortunately reps often serve their own interests more than those of the pilot group at large. It is each pilots responsibility as a member to ensure that the MEC power is balanced by pilot power. Ratification is the only thing that can do that.

The procedures are in the by-laws as well.

I wish you luck. My personal opinion is that pilot leaders that accept the abrogation of their pilots seniority for a few jets that they "might" get are doint their own pilots and all regional pilots WRONG.

 

[328dude]

Surplus.

You don't know jack about what has been going on with this airline. Replace the MEC. Wow, you really are a genious......

You claim to know about ALPA and it's by-laws, well a free taco to you sir. I'll even throw in some of my own special sauce.

Don't sit there and preach to us about what has been going on is our fault. You obviously don't work here or you would have shut up weeks ago.


Smoking man, call me...we need to talk.

 

[surplus1]

You don't want to bash me? Have you read what you posted?

Yes, I read it and I just read it again to be sure. I wasn't bashing you personally but I was bashing your group. PSA has been around for a long time. Yet, if I believe what you tell me and I do, you don't have pilot ratification.

I certainly do not like your demeanor, The truth is hat the pilot group did not even know for a fact that we had a TA on the Pilot contract before the MEC had voted it in.

I don't doubt what you say. I took you at your word before and I'm taking you at your word again. You were not informed and the MEC ratified. You had no chance to vote pro or con. I think it is wrong for your pilot group to be put in that position. I also think the pilots should have demanded pilot ratification before your negotiations even began. This was not your first contract.

Wow did you come up with that on your own?

Actually yes, I did come up with it on my own. What I said and meant was that when a pilot group has been around as long as yours has and does not have the right to ratify a contract, that is because the pilot group has allowed that condition to exist, for whatever reason.

I realize there is nothing you can do to change what has happened in the past. However, you can prevent it from happening again. If the majority of your pilot group wants ratification, you can force it to happen.

If the reps you have now will not allow you to choose pilot ratification, you can change the reps. If you can't get enough votes to change the reps that means the majority of you are OK with having MEC ratification. That's all I really said and that is true. I don't have to know anything about your group to know that much.

You don't even know the half of it. First of all it is not your JOB or your Pilot group that the FEW (MEC) has gambled with your future and turned the PSA name to trash. Piedmont seems to be following us.

Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me. I think you are telling me that you object to what just happened. If that is right, then I am ON YOUR SIDE.

I don't think that any MEC should decide such an important issue by itself, without a ratification vote by all the pilots. I think that's wrong for your MEC or any other MEC to do.

I actually think the whole J4J concept sucks and I think every pilot group should be against it. From what you wrote, I thought you were against it. Are you for or against????

The J4J thing was a done deal from the start, The MEC had the votes locked in from the start. Before we knew about it.

Again, even if it makes you angrey, I still think that is very wrong. In my opinion your MEC should not decide that by itself. The pilots should decide and the only way that can happen is if you get a chance to vote on it. If my MEC kept me from voting on something like that, I would do everything in my power to recall every member of the MEC that voted for it.

I'll end this now because obviously what ever I say will not matter, you must be so much smarter that the rest of us dumb turbo prop drivers.

How could you say that? I couldn't care less what kind of airplane you fly. I respect you as an airline pilot just like myself. It would never occur to me to disrespect you because you fly a turboprop. I've flown lots of turboprops myself.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you are so frustrated and angry about what has happened that you really didn't understand my post.

I don't apologize for what I said, but when you are not as upset I would appreciate your telling me honestly just what you didn't like about what I said. I thought we were on the same side when I wrote that. We are both regional pilots and what you say does matter to me, even if what I say doesn't matter to you.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus.

You don't know jack about what has been going on with this airline. Replace the MEC. Wow, you really are a genious......

You're right! I don't know what's been going on. What I do know is what Smoking man told me and I believed him.

Did you get to ratify your contract? He says you didn't. Did you get to ratify the J4J deal? He says you didn't.

I said I think that's wrong and I still do. That means I think you should have had the right for all pilots to vote on both the contract and J4J. Do you disagree?

You claim to know about ALPA and it's by-laws, well a free taco to you sir. I'll even throw in some of my own special sauce.

Well thanks, but the truth is I don't care for Tacos or the sauce. I'll settle for a Whopper or a chicken sadwich please. BTW I do know enough about the rules to get my MEC to do what the majority of the pilots want. Now did your MEC do that or did it do smething else?

Maybe I misunderstood and you want J4J. Is that it?

Don't sit there and preach to us about what has been going on is our fault. You obviously don't work here or you would have shut up weeks ago.

You are right I don't work there. I work at Comair and our MEC doesn't go off on its own and do things without the pilot's consent. We will not allow that to happen and they wouldn't try it to begin with.

So where exactly do you stand? Are you with the MEC or against it?

 

[328dude]

Where I stand is with the other wholly owned. We were intill a few days ago unified together fighting this J4J deal left and right. With our MEC voting for us, we are no longer unified and Im not looking forward to looking ALG and PDT in the eye in PHL. I don't like this J4J deal and would much rather continue to fly the Dork if it preserved the jobs of fellow PSA, ALG, and PDT crews. I will never vote on something that takes away a fellow employees livelihood and replaces it so dad can pay for his three wives.

Unfortunatly, we are not Comair. Your MEC values it's pilot group and listens to what they want. Ours does none of this. I should have gone with you guys when I had the chance. Not because I can fly a jet, I could care less, more because I value you guys and gals leadership from your MEC.

I'll look you up in CVG Surplus and take you out for burgers and beer.