PSA signs on for Jets for Jobs

[surplus1]

Re: Surplus 1

I feel like we are being rounded up for the slaughter.

Unfortunately you are correct. The sad part is that you are helping them to slaughter you.

I understand the ALPA system. I don't want to bash you, but the truth is your pilot group has had ample time to force your MEC to adopt pilot ratification of new contracts and critical changes to your existing contract. If you did not do that, guess who's to blame.

Typical apathy on the part of line pilots is what allows MECs to get away with stuff like this. It's too late now, but if there is another time down the road you need to get off your duff and force the MEC to adopt pilot ratification.

If your representatives won't do it, replace them with representatives that will. Unfortunately reps often serve their own interests more than those of the pilot group at large. It is each pilots responsibility as a member to ensure that the MEC power is balanced by pilot power. Ratification is the only thing that can do that.

The procedures are in the by-laws as well.

I wish you luck. My personal opinion is that pilot leaders that accept the abrogation of their pilots seniority for a few jets that they "might" get are doint their own pilots and all regional pilots WRONG.

 

[328dude]

Surplus.

You don't know jack about what has been going on with this airline. Replace the MEC. Wow, you really are a genious......

You claim to know about ALPA and it's by-laws, well a free taco to you sir. I'll even throw in some of my own special sauce.

Don't sit there and preach to us about what has been going on is our fault. You obviously don't work here or you would have shut up weeks ago.


Smoking man, call me...we need to talk.

 

[surplus1]

You don't want to bash me? Have you read what you posted?

Yes, I read it and I just read it again to be sure. I wasn't bashing you personally but I was bashing your group. PSA has been around for a long time. Yet, if I believe what you tell me and I do, you don't have pilot ratification.

I certainly do not like your demeanor, The truth is hat the pilot group did not even know for a fact that we had a TA on the Pilot contract before the MEC had voted it in.

I don't doubt what you say. I took you at your word before and I'm taking you at your word again. You were not informed and the MEC ratified. You had no chance to vote pro or con. I think it is wrong for your pilot group to be put in that position. I also think the pilots should have demanded pilot ratification before your negotiations even began. This was not your first contract.

Wow did you come up with that on your own?

Actually yes, I did come up with it on my own. What I said and meant was that when a pilot group has been around as long as yours has and does not have the right to ratify a contract, that is because the pilot group has allowed that condition to exist, for whatever reason.

I realize there is nothing you can do to change what has happened in the past. However, you can prevent it from happening again. If the majority of your pilot group wants ratification, you can force it to happen.

If the reps you have now will not allow you to choose pilot ratification, you can change the reps. If you can't get enough votes to change the reps that means the majority of you are OK with having MEC ratification. That's all I really said and that is true. I don't have to know anything about your group to know that much.

You don't even know the half of it. First of all it is not your JOB or your Pilot group that the FEW (MEC) has gambled with your future and turned the PSA name to trash. Piedmont seems to be following us.

Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me. I think you are telling me that you object to what just happened. If that is right, then I am ON YOUR SIDE.

I don't think that any MEC should decide such an important issue by itself, without a ratification vote by all the pilots. I think that's wrong for your MEC or any other MEC to do.

I actually think the whole J4J concept sucks and I think every pilot group should be against it. From what you wrote, I thought you were against it. Are you for or against????

The J4J thing was a done deal from the start, The MEC had the votes locked in from the start. Before we knew about it.

Again, even if it makes you angrey, I still think that is very wrong. In my opinion your MEC should not decide that by itself. The pilots should decide and the only way that can happen is if you get a chance to vote on it. If my MEC kept me from voting on something like that, I would do everything in my power to recall every member of the MEC that voted for it.

I'll end this now because obviously what ever I say will not matter, you must be so much smarter that the rest of us dumb turbo prop drivers.

How could you say that? I couldn't care less what kind of airplane you fly. I respect you as an airline pilot just like myself. It would never occur to me to disrespect you because you fly a turboprop. I've flown lots of turboprops myself.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you are so frustrated and angry about what has happened that you really didn't understand my post.

I don't apologize for what I said, but when you are not as upset I would appreciate your telling me honestly just what you didn't like about what I said. I thought we were on the same side when I wrote that. We are both regional pilots and what you say does matter to me, even if what I say doesn't matter to you.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus.

You don't know jack about what has been going on with this airline. Replace the MEC. Wow, you really are a genious......

You're right! I don't know what's been going on. What I do know is what Smoking man told me and I believed him.

Did you get to ratify your contract? He says you didn't. Did you get to ratify the J4J deal? He says you didn't.

I said I think that's wrong and I still do. That means I think you should have had the right for all pilots to vote on both the contract and J4J. Do you disagree?

You claim to know about ALPA and it's by-laws, well a free taco to you sir. I'll even throw in some of my own special sauce.

Well thanks, but the truth is I don't care for Tacos or the sauce. I'll settle for a Whopper or a chicken sadwich please. BTW I do know enough about the rules to get my MEC to do what the majority of the pilots want. Now did your MEC do that or did it do smething else?

Maybe I misunderstood and you want J4J. Is that it?

Don't sit there and preach to us about what has been going on is our fault. You obviously don't work here or you would have shut up weeks ago.

You are right I don't work there. I work at Comair and our MEC doesn't go off on its own and do things without the pilot's consent. We will not allow that to happen and they wouldn't try it to begin with.

So where exactly do you stand? Are you with the MEC or against it?

 

[328dude]

Where I stand is with the other wholly owned. We were intill a few days ago unified together fighting this J4J deal left and right. With our MEC voting for us, we are no longer unified and Im not looking forward to looking ALG and PDT in the eye in PHL. I don't like this J4J deal and would much rather continue to fly the Dork if it preserved the jobs of fellow PSA, ALG, and PDT crews. I will never vote on something that takes away a fellow employees livelihood and replaces it so dad can pay for his three wives.

Unfortunatly, we are not Comair. Your MEC values it's pilot group and listens to what they want. Ours does none of this. I should have gone with you guys when I had the chance. Not because I can fly a jet, I could care less, more because I value you guys and gals leadership from your MEC.

I'll look you up in CVG Surplus and take you out for burgers and beer.

 

[FR8mastr]

328 dude, I'm ALG and I appreciate your views tremendously. The best thing to do now is to organize a recall of your MEC. The LEC guys need to do this. It can be done. It's not too late, barring any new info unknown to me LOA 81 is still not signed nor will be signed by national ALPA. it violates their bylaws!! We can still unite and try and save our jobs.

 

[Caveman]

Surplus,

I'm a huge fan of your posts but when I first read the post Fr8mstr and 328dude were objecting to I also thought it was a little harsh. I understand and agree with your point of view but I can see how it might have been construed as being too critical of line pilots that had no idea about what was going on behind their backs. It's kinda like blaming the husband for not paying attention to whats going on behind his back when his wife is caught cheating on him. The PSA pilots seem to be rightously indignant now that they now what their MEC did to them.

Regards,

Caveman

 

[surplus1]

328Dude

Thanks for your reply. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to take you up on that brew.

I'm glad to learn that we are on the same side of this issue. I have a suggestion.

If most of your pilot groups is against what your MEC did, then get yourselves together immediately and get on the horn to Duane Woreth and demand that he refuse to sign that TA.

Write a letter to him saying the same thing and get every pilot that is opposed to what happened to sign it. Better if you get one letter from each pilot, but if that's too hard, then one letter signed by all pilots. Include each pilots ALPA # next to the signature.

Demand and LEC meeting. Do it in writing. Get a copy of the Constitution and it will tell you how. Since the MEC did this, your reps probably do not support you, but if there are enough of you can still force a meeting. At that meeting, start a recall motion of the reps.

If you can get enough reps (check the Constitution on MEC meetings) to back you, force the MEC to meet and reconsider its action. Its not a contract until Woerth signs it.

This is politics and its tough politics, but when an MEC is going against the wishes of the pilots you have to take action to regain control of your union. The sooner you do it the better.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope you guys and the ALG and PDT guys stand together like a rock an defeat this thing. Put the pressure on ALPA.

IMO, LOA-81 does violate the ALPA C&BL. If you agree, let Woerth know that in no uncertain terms. Hold his feet to the fire. ALPA is obligated to represent your interests and LOA81 doesn't do that.

Everything I said depends on one thing. A MAJORITY OF THE PILOTS! If you do NOT have the support of the majority, forget it.

Respectfully,
Surplus1
CMR