PSA runs off runway during a aborted takeoff at CRW!

[ASApuppy]

In the spirit of Monday morning quarterbacking, lets discuss what to do if you find yourself in this situation. Without a doubt, they should have caught this earlier.

So, your scenerio is your on takeoff roll at CRW. Your heavy. Cold air temps, clean dry runway. Somewhere between 100kts and your 135ish V1, you discover that the flaps are set at 8 rather than 20. What would you do?

If I was closer to 100kts, I would Discontinue Takeoff Immedietely. If you discover the flap set wrong at closer to V1, I would fly. If my F/O was flying, I would call for the controls and I would keep the aircraft on the ground as long as possible before a slow rotation. Think of it as a windshear recovery with degraded performance.

It sounds like this crew made the decision to continue, but to reset the flaps to 20. As posted above, as soon as they went to 8.1 deg, Master warning and aural "Config Flaps". They probably did not figure on that aural and it caused a second or two to reconsider. That second might have very well brought them above V1. Regardless, it brought them closer to the end of the runway. I think they ended up in the EMAS because they changed their mind. If they had decided to abort first, or not abort after the Config Flaps, I think its safe to say there would be no pics for us to look at or NTSB reports to read.

 

[Metro752]

You guys don't have all the facts, why don't you wait for the official report because you cannot be the quarterback on Monday morning unless you know what you are talking aboot... unless of course you want to be a super bowl losing cry baby head shaking peyton manning quarterback.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

You don't have time to think up there. If you think, you're dead.

 

[Whataburger]

A simple comment such as "nice sunrise" is.....

...proof you've had a fantastic overnight as you walk home from the bars.:beer:

 

[N813CA]

if you look at the pics they moved them to zero rather than 20

US Airways Incident Raises Pilot-Focus Issues

By ANDY PASZTOR
A fundamental breakdown of pilot discipline, including personal conversation in the cockpit, apparently was the major reason a US Airways commuter plane ran off the end of a West Virginia runway last month, according to industry officials.

Now, three weeks after the nonfatal incident, the circumstances are prompting extensive discussion and concern among pilots and safety experts, who consider it the latest example of cockpit distraction and erosion of pilot discipline.

The Jan. 19 event involved a twin-engine Bombardier jet that ran off the runway at Yeager Airport in Charleston, W. Va., after pilots abandoned takeoff. Operated by PSA Airlines Inc., a unit of US Airways Group Inc., the plane was damaged when it smashed into a crushable concrete safety zone at the end of the strip. None of the 34 people aboard was hurt, and the incident has generated relatively little media attention.

But among many safety experts, it is viewed as the latest example of a loss of pilot focus, and a symbol of what some regulators believe is a broader problem of lack of pilot professionalism.

A US Airways spokesman said the airline is cooperating fully with the National Transportation Safety Board's investigation and has launched its own probe. But he declined to comment about specifics. The spokesman also said the two pilots, whose names haven't been released, were placed on administrative leave and taken off flying duties, as is normal after such an event.

PSA Airlines hasn't had a fatal accident or incident since it became part of US Airways, or what was then called USAir, in 1995.

Preliminary data collected from the cockpit voice recorder indicates that prior to the botched takeoff, the two pilots of US Airways Express Flight 2495 engaged in stretches of nonpertinent chatter that didn't deal with flight preparations, checklists or pilot tasks, according to industry officials familiar with the details.

Pilots are strictly prohibited from engaging in such private, extraneous conversations during critical phases of flight, particularly takeoff, descent and landing.

A spokesman for the safety board declined to comment on the investigation.

The board's probe comes at a time when Randy Babbitt, the head of Federal Aviation Administration, is stressing the importance of maintaining pilot professionalism and avoiding distractions behind the controls. Mr. Babbbitt, for example, told a House aviation subcommittee last week that the FAA is looking for methods to transfer the experience of veteran aviators to younger commuter pilots. He said such programs are an "important way to raise professional standards and improve cockpit discipline."

Industry officials describe the following sequence of events on Flight 2495. Before starting the takeoff roll, the crew is believed to have incorrectly set the flaps -- movable panels at the rear of the wings that provide essential lift. As the jet accelerated down the runway, reached almost 100 miles per hour and its front landing gear was lifting off the ground, the crew realized the mistake, according to these officials. The pilots quickly readjusted the flaps, prompting an automated cockpit warning to abandon takeoff. The crew then tried but failed to stop the jet before it rolled into the safety area.

Pilots said it is generally considered unsafe and quite unusual to adjust flap settings during takeoff. Airlines typically train crews to work together to handle so-called rejected takeoffs, including practicing decisions about what speeds and runway conditions make it safer to continue climbing instead of slowing down and attempting to stop.

Write to Andy Pasztor at [email protected]

 

[Volasl]

"according to industry officials familiar with the details."


Mr. Pasztor needs to wait until the final NTSB and/or FAA report is finished. I hate a leak. If you google news the topic, Mr. Pasztor is the only one that has reported this info. While his facts may or may not be correct, ill wait to hear the full report versus what a journalist is told.

 

[cjdriver]

You guys need to be shut down and the majors need to take over your flying. Just saying.....

 

[CFIT]

My guess is the flaps were set to 20 degrees instead of 8 degrees, it was caught during the takeoff roll, and inadvertantly retracted to up or zero degrees. Once the flaps retracted to less than 8 degrees the TO CONFIG OK message was lost and a triple chime master warning and aural message to "Config Flaps" occured, and the abort was attempted.

Who Knows, who cares?

 

[DC8Driver]

You guys need to be shut down and the majors need to take over your flying. Just saying.....

Your operation should shut down and let NetJets take over your flying.....Just saying.......Dumbf^ck.

 

[DC8Driver]

My guess is the flaps were set to 20 degrees instead of 8 degrees, it was caught during the takeoff roll, and inadvertantly retracted to up or zero degrees. Once the flaps retracted to less than 8 degrees the TO CONFIG OK message was lost and a triple chime master warning and aural message to "Config Flaps" occured, and the abort was attempted.

Who Knows, who cares?

your right!!!!.....You don't know.......

 

[paulsalem]

My guess is the flaps were set to 20 degrees instead of 8 degrees, it was caught during the takeoff roll, and inadvertantly retracted to up or zero degrees. Once the flaps retracted to less than 8 degrees the TO CONFIG OK message was lost and a triple chime master warning and aural message to "Config Flaps" occured, and the abort was attempted.

Who Knows, who cares?

If the flaps are not in 8 or in 20 you'll get the warning.

Your operation should shut down and let NetJets take over your flying.....Just saying.......Dumbf^ck.

Hahah, nice!

 

[Flyer1015]

Your heavy. Cold air temps, clean dry runway. Somewhere between 100kts and your 135ish V1, you discover that the flaps are set at 8 rather than 20. What would you do?

If I was closer to 100kts, I would Discontinue Takeoff Immedietely.

No way. Know thy airplane! On our speedcards, from the 43k-53k card (assuming normal full power TO), the difference between V1 from a 8 to a 20 flap takeoff is 10 knots, and the difference between VR (from a flaps 8 to 20) is 9 knots. IF I realized the flaps are set at 8, and the Vspeeds are set for 20, I am CONTINUING! There is no way in hell I'm aborting over this discrepancy at over 100-135 knots on a 6,200' runway! As I said, with our speed cards, I know the difference in V1 speed is 10 knots and Vr is 9 knots. This is about knowing your airplane inside out. I will continue, and takeoff. Why the hell would you highspeed abort a perfectly flying and flyable aircraft?

 

[Flyer1015]

And I agree with people here saying it's too early to tell what happened, even if it's the "people familiar with the events" story. I can only pray that those events aren't true. Because if they are true, this crew will be fried inside out for breaking sterile cockpit resulting in a lack of attention/discipline that resulted in the wrong data/configuration, which then resulted in a high speed abort. After 3407, they will have a zero tolerance for this kind of stuff. So for the sake of the crew involved, I will pray that it isn't true.

 

[ohplease!]

No way. Know thy airplane! On our speedcards, from the 43k-53k card (assuming normal full power TO), the difference between V1 from a 8 to a 20 flap takeoff is 10 knots, and the difference between VR (from a flaps 8 to 20) is 9 knots. IF I realized the flaps are set at 8, and the Vspeeds are set for 20, I am CONTINUING! There is no way in hell I'm aborting over this discrepancy at over 100-135 knots on a 6,200' runway! As I said, with our speed cards, I know the difference in V1 speed is 10 knots and Vr is 9 knots. This is about knowing your airplane inside out. I will continue, and takeoff. Why the hell would you highspeed abort a perfectly flying and flyable aircraft?[/QUOTE]
thats the problem with "pilot mill" crews....no experience thinking outside the box.....everything is fine as long as the situations remain inside the realm of what has been spoon fed to the crew...My question is and has always been; what is going to happen when ******************** goes bad and you have to make a quick decision OUTSIDE THE BOX? I think we know. Not just this situation but, look at incidents over history...those who think and plan and role play situations OUTSIDE the box will be the ones to have a "successful" outcomes when things go bad.

No substitution for EXPERIENCE. None.

 

[buscap]

Hey OHPLEASE,

Like I said, my theory is maybe it was the FO who realized the error and changed the flaps without saying anything. Captain hears the ding ding ding and aborts. Just a monday morning quarterback buttheaded-without all the facts-theory.