PSA/PDT flowthrough

[WSurf]

I'm an ex-Henson/Piedmont Captain 1986-1996. I remember attending an LEC meeting where the discussion turned to flow-thru. The Flow-Thru Chairman at the time got up there and said "' If you're interested in flying for mainline, I suggest you fill out an application and apply on your own. You will probably get there quicker." That was back in 1990,if I remember correctly. I see that not much has changed since then.


PHXFLYR

Yea! And most of the those were the ole' USAir folks! You can still see and hear the small hatred between the orginal USAir and Orginal Piedmont folks! Most comment is in CLT are "why don't you go back to pittsburgh"! From what I have heard, the Orginal Piedmont Pilots didn't have a problem attaching Henson to the seniority list!
But who cares! Let Lear bask in is glory and we will see what the future holds! No sense in even letting him get under your skin! Just remember you are the one that controls your destiny!!!

 

[PropPiedmont]

When will everyone understand that they really don't have a say in what happens with this merger/seniority integration/flow thru?

 

[OPECJet]

Congratulations Surf!

Let me know when you want me to start working on that chastity belt we were talking about. You're going to have to fight off the boys when she gets older!

 

[WSurf]

Yea with a boy you only have to worry about ONE PENIS!! With a girl you have too worry about EVERYONES PENIS!!!!!!

 

[jetfo]

ok olympus lets look at it this way.....

ask any guy off the street no involved in this. Tell them we flowed up but are not allowed to flow down besause of that part of the document not being signed. (maybe even toss in your other excuse about ALG not being around anymore) and see what kind of answer you get. I'm betting he or she is going to call BS on your part.

Fine you want to play based on small technical things in the orginal agreement we can play that game too......

1. In the original flow agreement you had to bid to MDA or bid to bypass MDA in order to get to mainline. If MDA no longer exists and you can't bid to go to or bypass something that no longer exists then how are you supposed to get to mainline? Weak and backhanded (backstabbing in our case/language) aguement - yes I do believe, but just as weak and backhanded as your arguement about the flowback part not being signed.

Just let me know and I'll let my MEC negociating commette know that I'd like the above arguement brought up at your next "joint meeting"

2. another weak arguement however no more mature than you now famous "the flowback page wasn't signed" BS. If the flowback was part of the whole agreement and the whole agreement and that part wan't signed, can't we say that the entire agreement wasn't complete? If the entire agreement wasn't complete then how could we ever offer you guys flow up? We would never want to put you guys in a postion down the road that may leave you careers hanging. If the agreement wasn't signed in full (everypage) then it never really existed. Tell me how you are you guys going to get flow up based on a document that never existed.

Again let me know if you want me to inform my MEC about this.

See, what goes around comes around. You guys started it, wanted your cake and to eat it too. You want to play that game, we can play it too.

Hey Lear, here is something that you are conveniently forgetting. The reason the flow up was documented and signed is because when it was agreed to no one thought a flow up would ever come to pass.

At the time everyone at AAA figured it was only a matter of time until U was being liquidated, so why not give PDT/PSA a flow up and who cares about a flow down.

I don't have any idea why you have the nasty attitude you have against your former wholly owned brothers and sisters. You got a pretty good deal going to MDA and although temporarily screwed, now you got a AAA number well ahead of others that were ahead of your wholly owned DOH. Why on earth would you have wanted to flow down into PDT anyway.

You made your choices and took your chances. Now you get to be one of the first to flow up to AAA with your newly minted AAA seniority number on the APL. The guys that you are complaining about are only on the CEL way below you now, although many have a DOH that is well ahead of yours.

I hope your attitude and compassion for others improves when you flow up/get (re)called from the APL to AAA.

 

[LearLove]

Jesus Christ people, its not about what I got or who gets to flow or whatnot, its about how the PDT boys had a chance to step up to the plate and help us this past summer (mainly) but chose to stab us in the back big time. The only people that support the PDT excuse of the flow back part not being signed are the PDT guys themselves. In fact i don't care if there was a document that stated we couldn't ever flow back that was signed by Dipsh1t President Bush himself. They know better than to leave their own hanging like that and there are about 100 former WO guys that went to MDA that won't forget what they did or didn't do. Now the 190's come around and the shoe is on the other foot. How do you expect us to feel?

You guys f'd us, why shouldn't we want to f' you guys right back?

 

[jetfo]

Yes a few did come to MDA, MOST told them no thanks, repeatedly. In my case I got 4 yes 4 "Last Chance" letters for the MDA gig and at least that many phone calls from USAir......they had one heck of a time filling those seats until they decided to offer it to the W/O pilots.

My point is that you need to actually get off your butt and go look for a mainline job, instead of arguing about who should be "given" a position!!

If I use the logic of some in this thread I should be entitled to my Capt. seat back at express.......heck with my original hire date with the W/O I should be number 10 or 20 by now! I took the chance and busted my but to move on to a mainline, any mainline, it just so happened USAir called first, if not it would have been UAL or CAL or whoever.........don't look for something for free or feel you are entitled to it, GO FIND YOUR JOB!!!!!

Kerosene:

I imagine things have changed a lot since you and I got into this business decades ago. Regionals are now flying aircraft the size of former mainline aircraft. Hardly anyone is flying a 19 seater, now it's 50-90 seaters much like the F28, DC9-10, etc.

Not only is an agreement already in place that should be honored, it also makes sense to implement it, particularly now that few if any APL furloughees have any interest in taking the right seat of the E190's that will arrive this fall, particularly at $41/hour.

I know that many of us had to go through a number of airlines to get to a mainline and some are now back at regionals waiting to move up again. The ideal would be brand scope, where the entry level pilot position at AAA is a Dash8/Q400 position and all flying is done in house, not contracted to other carriers.

This would give everyone a rational career progression and pilots would be paid for the number of seats flown. This would also stop the whipsawing between the carriers and reestablish ALPA without conflicts of interest negotiating pay rates by size of aircaft.

I do agree with you that one should not sit around waiting for this flow up to come to pass. If it happens, great, but if not everyone should try to get to a mainline carrier as soon as possible and not rely on a flow up.

 

[jetfo]

Heck, that is the airline biz. 1800 furloughees and god knows how many retirees were casually thrown under the nearest speeding bus, what makes you think it will not happen again?

I hear the honking of the next speeding bus heading the furloughees way right now. The merger fight is already amped up and only getting worse, nobody is going to know a thing until that issue is solved, and if the AWA boys have their way nobody that is not currently flying on the sen list is going to have a job at Airways.

Kerosene:

Don't you know that they are recalling from the APL right now. 55 now, 75 in June and 25/month thereafter. What makes you think that the AWA guys will be in control. There are 3000 AAA guys and less than 1500 AWA guys. Integration may not be by DOH for AAA, although the AAA MEC is insisting on it and may get it with fences. The folks on the APL will likely be stapled after all current AAA/AWA are integrated and then it will go to the CEL, as it should.

As far as recall from the APL is concerned, how many do you really think will accept recall? 2/3 or more have DOH of 1999 or later with less than 3 years at AAA. Most have moved on to other airlines and will not take recall. Most likely less than 1/3 of the 1800 will accept a recall. And with the massive retirements at AAA and 57 E190's coming, not to mention the A350's in four years where is the new U going to go for pilots? Off the streets, when they have existing agreements in place?

And, what do the AWA guys care on what happens to those below them on the seniority list. If the APL folks and the CEL folks get recalled/flow up below their seniority, it won't matter to them.

 

[jetfo]

Jesus Christ people, its not about what I got or who gets to flow or whatnot, its about how the PDT boys had a chance to step up to the plate and help us this past summer (mainly) but chose to stab us in the back big time. The only people that support the PDT excuse of the flow back part not being signed are the PDT guys themselves. In fact i don't care if there was a document that stated we couldn't ever flow back that was signed by Dipsh1t President Bush himself. They know better than to leave their own hanging like that and there are about 100 former WO guys that went to MDA that won't forget what they did or didn't do. Now the 190's come around and the shoe is on the other foot. How do you expect us to feel?

You guys f'd us, why shouldn't we want to f' you guys right back?

Again, Lear you should try some compassion. You lost nothing and gained a lot and have little to be bitter about. You have a point in that they should have offered positions as long as that wouldn't displace PDT pilots. PDT has been hiring and absent an agreement, you guys should have certainly given positions ahead of street hires.

Everyone wants to protect their respective positions and absent enforceable agreements it's a natural inclination to find a way to avoid something that may harm some of the pilots you represent. You can't fault the PDT MEC for that. There should have been a flowdown in place to mirror the flow up, so everyone would have known what to expect.

You guys got screwed by the sale of MDA assets, that I believe AAA will eventually regret, but at least you got a AAA number in return and you will do well to be compassionate toward your brothers and sisters at PDT/PSA, most of which had no say in these decisions, and who will be well below you on the list in the future.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Kerosene:

Don't you know that they are recalling from the APL right now. 55 now, 75 in June and 25/month thereafter. What makes you think that the AWA guys will be in control. There are 3000 AAA guys and less than 1500 AWA guys. Integration may not be by DOH for AAA, although the AAA MEC is insisting on it and may get it with fences. The folks on the APL will likely be stapled after all current AAA/AWA are integrated and then it will go to the CEL, as it should.

As far as recall from the APL is concerned, how many do you really think will accept recall? 2/3 or more have DOH of 1999 or later with less than 3 years at AAA. Most have moved on to other airlines and will not take recall. Most likely less than 1/3 of the 1800 will accept a recall. And with the massive retirements at AAA and 57 E190's coming, not to mention the A350's in four years where is the new U going to go for pilots? Off the streets, when they have existing agreements in place?

And, what do the AWA guys care on what happens to those below them on the seniority list. If the APL folks and the CEL folks get recalled/flow up below their seniority, it won't matter to them.

Wanna bet?


PHXFLYR

 

[jetfo]

Wanna bet?


PHXFLYR

PHXFLYR:

No offense, but you guys won't lose much even with DOH integration as long as you have fences in place for a period of time. I don't think it will be straight DOH, but most likely 1 to 1 slotting with fences for years.

In the long term you guys have nothing to be worried about with regard to seniority. I doubt that there are many AAA guys currently on the list that are less than fifty. The retirements over the next 5-10 years are massive.

The guys that are getting screwed in this deal are the people on the APL who are most likely going to be stapled to the bottom of the integrated list and some of those have 17 years with AAA.

Don't worry, you'll be flying left seat on a A350 in no time, while the rest of us will be lucky to be on reserve on the E190 in DCA or PIT.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Kerosene:

Don't you know that they are recalling from the APL right now. 55 now, 75 in June and 25/month thereafter. What makes you think that the AWA guys will be in control. There are 3000 AAA guys and less than 1500 AWA guys. Integration may not be by DOH for AAA, although the AAA MEC is insisting on it and may get it with fences. The folks on the APL will likely be stapled after all current AAA/AWA are integrated and then it will go to the CEL, as it should.

As far as recall from the APL is concerned, how many do you really think will accept recall? 2/3 or more have DOH of 1999 or later with less than 3 years at AAA. Most have moved on to other airlines and will not take recall. Most likely less than 1/3 of the 1800 will accept a recall. And with the massive retirements at AAA and 57 E190's coming, not to mention the A350's in four years where is the new U going to go for pilots? Off the streets, when they have existing agreements in place?

And, what do the AWA guys care on what happens to those below them on the seniority list. If the APL folks and the CEL folks get recalled/flow up below their seniority, it won't matter to them.

Yes I do know they are recalling 55, the 75 is a maybe, and the 25 there after is based on 190 aquisitions. We all know how the "New planes will be here" thing goes.

Couple that to the fact that historically any merger between two carriers usually results in furloughs soon after does not instill vast amounts of confidence in a meaningful recall.

Plus we (furloughees) are looking at a very real possibility of a pure staple job on the bottom which will only hold a 190 f/o slot at much less than stellar pay rates.

Also you have to consider that AWA being the "buyer" an US the "buyee" that there is a very real possibility of the merger going very much in their favor, You know that ALL will be done to try to protect the 30 year guys coming up on retirement, traditionally U's MEC is mostly about protecting the senior and then if there is any barganing power left, they get around to the junior guys, followed by the furlougees after that. Remember that we are talking about a pilot group that a large percentage of didn't even know that they had furloughed pilots on the street from 92 to 99. It is amazing the number of line pilots out there that had no idea. Even after recalls many thought the returning guys were just "Newhires" I was not in that group, but several of my crashpad mates were.

My point to the others was to not count on the pipe dream of a recall/flowthru. While it would be nice to have the option to consider, I am not betting my livlyhood on a recall or flowthru and neither should anybody else, especially with so many hiring right now.

 

[PHXFLYR]

PHXFLYR:

No offense, but you guys won't lose much even with DOH integration as long as you have fences in place for a period of time. I don't think it will be straight DOH, but most likely 1 to 1 slotting with fences for years.

In the long term you guys have nothing to be worried about with regard to seniority. I doubt that there are many AAA guys currently on the list that are less than fifty. The retirements over the next 5-10 years are massive.

The guys that are getting screwed in this deal are the people on the APL who are most likely going to be stapled to the bottom of the integrated list and some of those have 17 years with AAA.

Don't worry, you'll be flying left seat on a A350 in no time, while the rest of us will be lucky to be on reserve on the E190 in DCA or PIT.

No offense taken,but I want to take a few mins. to set the record straight. First DOH is a non-starter as far as the AWA Merger Committee is concerned . Also it is no where to be found in ALPA Merger Policy. Not only that ,fences don't protect you in the event of a downturn and furlough. Just ask any TWA pilot. Secondly while they do have quite a few retirements in the next 5 years, that doesn't mean much to the senior AWA F/O now that all movement on the West certificate has come to a standstill. As a matter of fact we are now looking at a 737 Captain reduction bid. And finally,on a more personal note, I have no desire to fly widebody A330's overseas in the middle of the night out of PHL . So keep the cute little A350 left seat comments to yourself, OK? Thanks.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

PHXFLYR:

No offense, but you guys won't lose much even with DOH integration as long as you have fences in place for a period of time. I don't think it will be straight DOH, but most likely 1 to 1 slotting with fences for years.

In the long term you guys have nothing to be worried about with regard to seniority. I doubt that there are many AAA guys currently on the list that are less than fifty. The retirements over the next 5-10 years are massive.

The guys that are getting screwed in this deal are the people on the APL who are most likely going to be stapled to the bottom of the integrated list and some of those have 17 years with AAA.

Don't worry, you'll be flying left seat on a A350 in no time, while the rest of us will be lucky to be on reserve on the E190 in DCA or PIT.

......................

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

No offense taken,but I want to take a few mins. to set the record straight. First DOH is a non-starter as far as the AWA Merger Committee is concerned . Also it is no where to be found in ALPA Merger Policy. Not only that ,fences don't protect you in the event of a downturn and furlough. Just ask any TWA pilot. Secondly while they do have quite a few retirements in the next 5 years, that doesn't mean much to the senior AWA F/O now that all movement on the West certificate has come to a standstill. As a matter of fact we are now looking at a 737 Captain reduction bid. And finally,on a more personal note, I have no desire to fly widebody A330's overseas in the middle of the night out of PHL . So keep the cute little A350 left seat comments to yourself, OK? Thanks.


PHXFLYR

A couple of points, just to "stir the pot" so to speak. Not looking for a fight here but pointing out what you will hear from the other side.

1. The Airways list is also at a standstill.
2. The junior AWA 737 Captain is what 98 hire if memory serves?

USAirways has guys on furlough that are ten years senior to your junior captain.......and chances are that AWA's junior captain was still in college...or maybe even highschool in 88.

It will not be date of hire that is a given in todays age, however I think you guys (AWA) really should not be so opposed to fences, without them there is also the possibility that it would go very bad for your junior captains. Hard to say how an arbitraitor may view a decade + inservice....even if it is a furloughed pilot.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Kerosene:

There are 3000 AAA guys and less than 1500 AWA guys.

Also I can tell you are not one of the furloughed..............

There are in fact 4800 USAirways guys not 3000....see, we have only been furloughed 4 years and already you have forgot about us!!

Sorry could not resist!

 

[PropPiedmont]

You guys f'd us, why shouldn't we want to f' you guys right back?

PDT pilots screwing other pilots? That doesn't make any sense. No one got screwed by us. Instead of flying right seat in a Dash-8 in the middle of summer sweating your balls off, you'll be in the left seat of nicely airconditioned state of the art jet.

Lear, I hate to say it because I know you'll start throwing rocks at me too, but you are a moron.

 

[ironspud]

So....just to "where" are all youse guys (and of course, youse gals) think you are "flowing up" to?

Just to clarify.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well Lear has a point, which you guys don't see. See in LOA 91 it states that any WO pilot furloughed from MDA, would flow back to their respective carrier. ALG being folded into PDT, one would surmise they would go back to PDT. Not sure the details, but obviously they did not. Part of the problem was it stated they would flow back according to LOA (TBD) guess it never happened. AAA MEC then tried to backfill J4J positions at PSA, and their MEC had a epelectic attack at the thought of more J4J's coming over. None the less, now with a small amount of growth occuring, and the possibility of US actually making something of itself, it seems the WO guys are getting a little excited on the possibility of a flow up.
As Lear has also pointed out, don't think the PDT problem has gone unnoticed. In addtion, the continued talks of J4J's out of my seat at PSA.....and the calling of scabs, and some of the other juvenile antics that have gone on, don't think that isn't known by the AAA MEC. Yes they gave away their scope clause and pension to finance these fancy new jets, and they came up with a J4J program, (which infinitely sucks in many ways) but that's what came out of it. After they gave these up and watched growth/expansion/upgrades/pay raises at the regional level, and then to hear unrealistic terms put forth by the wo's MECs on their requirments of a flow up. Dragging of feet on backfills for new APL members, whining on slotted bidding issues (the fact that in order for PSA to be allowed to fly 70 seaters there had to be slotting in the monthly bids with J4J's, which only equals 28 J4Js now), whining on the fact that furloughed pilots can pass on a 190 f/o position indefinately (which for most would be a large pay cut AGAIN) etc etc. **** Forgot to the add the comments of, "I don't care about a mainline number, and wouldn't wipe my *ss with a job at US" After watching all of this, and other instances I'm sure I'm not privy to, what do you think the attitude of US MEC (AAA or AWA) is towards handing slots to these guys on a silver platter????

Don't get me wrong, the PDT/PSA MEC's shouldn't roll over etc just for a flow up, and in fact should represent their pilots as needed. Though PSA is in a cornered position as they represent PSA and J4J pilots, which is a strange thing.

In addition, I've been FOR a flow through for sometime, and is prob. the closest thing to a brand scope (or easiest from this point in time) that we can get. Though since the recalls have begun, and I've heard more and more of get out of my seat, get out of my planes etc etc....You don't belong here. Well my support for such is starting to waver.......(not that that matters much...)

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

CRZI,

I had heard about some of the stuff you guys were dealing with over there. I never could figure out their beef with the J4J'ers, Before J4J they had 30 DO-328 with 5 of them on a short term lease (25 was the base number for a long time) and after J4J they doubled in size and there is not a single TP in sight.

Like anywhere I guess, you are a low life scum until they want to get a recommendation from you!

I am with you though, I supported the push at mainline to try to get a flow thru or pref. hiring for the W/O guys, by the time it made it into the contract in 01 though the Wolfman had quit hiring and was buying mesa gobs of jets(in a round about way albiet but U still paid for themin the long run)

So many things that could have been done differently.....hind sight 20/20 and all.

 

[jetfo]

Also I can tell you are not one of the furloughed..............

There are in fact 4800 USAirways guys not 3000....see, we have only been furloughed 4 years and already you have forgot about us!!

Sorry could not resist!

I was referring to the number active U East pilots that would actually be able to have a say in the matter. But, thanks for the reminder that there are actually some 4800 on the list, like I needed it.

 

[jetfo]

Well Lear has a point, which you guys don't see. See in LOA 91 it states that any WO pilot furloughed from MDA, would flow back to their respective carrier. ALG being folded into PDT, one would surmise they would go back to PDT. Not sure the details, but obviously they did not. Part of the problem was it stated they would flow back according to LOA (TBD) guess it never happened. AAA MEC then tried to backfill J4J positions at PSA, and their MEC had a epelectic attack at the thought of more J4J's coming over. None the less, now with a small amount of growth occuring, and the possibility of US actually making something of itself, it seems the WO guys are getting a little excited on the possibility of a flow up.
As Lear has also pointed out, don't think the PDT problem has gone unnoticed. In addtion, the continued talks of J4J's out of my seat at PSA.....and the calling of scabs, and some of the other juvenile antics that have gone on, don't think that isn't known by the AAA MEC. Yes they gave away their scope clause and pension to finance these fancy new jets, and they came up with a J4J program, (which infinitely sucks in many ways) but that's what came out of it. After they gave these up and watched growth/expansion/upgrades/pay raises at the regional level, and then to hear unrealistic terms put forth by the wo's MECs on their requirments of a flow up. Dragging of feet on backfills for new APL members, whining on slotted bidding issues (the fact that in order for PSA to be allowed to fly 70 seaters there had to be slotting in the monthly bids with J4J's, which only equals 28 J4Js now), whining on the fact that furloughed pilots can pass on a 190 f/o position indefinately (which for most would be a large pay cut AGAIN) etc etc. **** Forgot to the add the comments of, "I don't care about a mainline number, and wouldn't wipe my *ss with a job at US" After watching all of this, and other instances I'm sure I'm not privy to, what do you think the attitude of US MEC (AAA or AWA) is towards handing slots to these guys on a silver platter????

Don't get me wrong, the PDT/PSA MEC's shouldn't roll over etc just for a flow up, and in fact should represent their pilots as needed. Though PSA is in a cornered position as they represent PSA and J4J pilots, which is a strange thing.

In addition, I've been FOR a flow through for sometime, and is prob. the closest thing to a brand scope (or easiest from this point in time) that we can get. Though since the recalls have begun, and I've heard more and more of get out of my seat, get out of my planes etc etc....You don't belong here. Well my support for such is starting to waver.......(not that that matters much...)

Crzy, I would't lump a few hotheads in with everyone else. There are a number of PSA pilots that are supportive of the J4J's. You are right that a flow up would represent the first step to brand scope and may eventually get all of the flying back to AAA and away from the likes of Mesa.

 

[PHXFLYR]

A couple of points, just to "stir the pot" so to speak. Not looking for a fight here but pointing out what you will hear from the other side.

1. The Airways list is also at a standstill.
2. The junior AWA 737 Captain is what 98 hire if memory serves?

USAirways has guys on furlough that are ten years senior to your junior captain.......and chances are that AWA's junior captain was still in college...or maybe even highschool in 88.

It will not be date of hire that is a given in todays age, however I think you guys (AWA) really should not be so opposed to fences, without them there is also the possibility that it would go very bad for your junior captains. Hard to say how an arbitraitor may view a decade + inservice....even if it is a furloughed pilot.

I don't think the average line pilot is opposed to fences, per se. I do remembed hearing someone from somewhere (our MEC maybe?) saying that Doug Parker (the real one,not the yutz that posts here on Flt Info) doesn't like them because he claims they will cost him money.So that's where the resitence to fences might be.As far as the USAir list being at a standstill ,with 15 EM190's going to CLT and 3 ex-ATA B757's going to PHL vs our B737 Capt reduction bid announced this week? Sorry, I don't think so. Regarding how the arbitrator will view the furloughee with 10+ years in service,man that's a good question. But I'm one "Cactus" pilot hoping that it does get addressed in some fashion and not just swept under the carpet. Good luck!


PHXFLYR

 

[Stuka Luva]

^^That's right jetfo^^



@Crzi

You know there are hotheads on both sides right? Hell, you're one of them along with another TYS CA (Native PSAer). There are the morons yelling and bitching about "Out of my seat" and such. There are also idiots calling PSAers "Glorified prop jocks flying my retirement" blah blah blah. Its this small percentage of people on both sides that makes the loudest noise on forums like this. The majority of native PSA pilots who know anything about how this thing went together understand what J4J and CRJs mean to this company. Continual ranting about how PSA had 29 328s and this and that "Where would they be" is so tiresome. I'm just F'n sick of it.

As far as "their MEC had an epeleptic attack" (where do you work again?) The BIGGEST issue here was with former PDT/ALG pilots coming over here under J4J and becoming PSA CAs. As you point out 91 states WO pilots flow back to their respective carriers. ALSO, the number of additional guys eligable to come over was in contention. It looks like there is gonna be a class of backfills on the way. We are so short-staffed right now and especially with the departure of two CAs in the last couple weeks its only gonna be worse come this summer.

If you want to go and complain to your MEC (I take it thats AAAs) about how PSA pilots are a bunch of crybabies blah blah, that's your business. I can see how some APLers are pissed, I can see how some PSAers are pissed, I can see how some PDTsters are pissed, I can see how some AAAers are pissed, etc... It sucks, so what? Bitching about it and at each other isn't gonna solve anything. Let's friggin move on.

Mgmt is the enemy..THEY are the ones who don't give a sh*t about any of us.


Anyway, back on topic of flowthrough...I stand by my statement on page one.


Man, I need a vacation from the GD F'n place!!!

 

[RobCat]

"You guys f'd us, why shouldn't we want to f' you guys right back?"
Lear
Where is the Love?

Maybe real Mainline pilots will have the same attitude towards you, that you have with us.

P.S. Karma is a B_itch

 

[Swaayze]

Just an observation, but perhaps the stagnation at West is due to the problems on that side. IIRC I just saw that the LFs were down vs. better loads at East.

Maybe, just maybe, all the talk of West needing East wasn't just BS.

Personally I don't really give a crap. I fully expect nothing more than recall to the bottom of the combined list (not that I necessarily think that's the "fairest" scenario given ALPA merger policy, but that's the best we'll get - so get used to it if you're furloughed and expecting more). To be honest I think I'm just about done with airline flying, maybe even professional flying altogether....

 

[LearLove]

"You guys f'd us, why shouldn't we want to f' you guys right back?"
Lear
Where is the Love?

Maybe real Mainline pilots will have the same attitude towards you, that you have with us.

P.S. Karma is a B_itch

Yeah right, Karma is a bitch. You guys are acting like myself and the other WO to MDA guys are the ones at fault. Look in the mirror and ask yourself why me and the others are so pissed.

Now I'm getting threating emails telling me I shouldn't stand in the way of your flow thru and such. I never was, I'm just voicing my pissed off, stabbed in the back by former friends, opinion.

Don't expect and of us former WO guys at MDA to help you guys. Good Luck, all i have to say is (not due to me) but the mainline MEC knows the BS you guys are up too, so don't get pissed if they shove the same BS back in your face on this deal.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Just an observation, but perhaps the stagnation at West is due to the problems on that side. IIRC I just saw that the LFs were down vs. better loads at East.

Maybe, just maybe, all the talk of West needing East wasn't just BS.

Personally I don't really give a crap. I fully expect nothing more than recall to the bottom of the combined list (not that I necessarily think that's the "fairest" scenario given ALPA merger policy, but that's the best we'll get - so get used to it if you're furloughed and expecting more). To be honest I think I'm just about done with airline flying, maybe even professional flying altogether....

Look,you've been thru a hell of a lot in your career,no doubt. But don't do anything stupid like quitting. At least not now. Let the merger process run it's course.Take a look and see what the Arbitrator comes up with as far as a new combined senority list and how he addresses the status of the furloughess. And don't forget the Joint Negotiating committee are working hard on obtaining a new working agreement. Hang in there for a few more years. Give it just a little more time to see what the final outcome is,and THEN make you're decision. Good luck!


PHXFLYR

 

[LearLove]

"You guys f'd us, why shouldn't we want to f' you guys right back?"
Lear
Where is the Love?

Maybe real Mainline pilots will have the same attitude towards you, that you have with us.

P.S. Karma is a B_itch

I wouldn't think they'd have any attitude, I/we haven't stabbed them in the back.

Its funny now I/we are the bad guys. What about the former PDT comm chairman not too long ago telling an MDA guy in the crew room that he'll "take a #2 with large fries". Talk about attitude and your b_itching at me for being pissy back at you, come on.

A fee week ago about 5 of us junior MDA/CEl guys were sitting in the crashpad talking about this PDT flow up subject. The typical response was:

"f thoes f'ing f'rs"
"thoes PDT guys can go suck an egg for all I care"

I/we didn't just wake up one day and decide to have this attitude. I'll leave it to you to figure out where it came from.

And thats all I have to say about this! I'm finished.

 

[RobCat]

You have a right to be angry but your anger is misdirected. Your mainline management is the one that slit your throat. Don't take it personal it happen to a few hundred before you. You weren't the first, and im sure not the last.