PSA offered 900's

[Sig]

We told them we already have it - it's the 70 seat jet rate, and when they asked for a 90 seat rate we told them again we have that - it's the 146 rate.

Wow! When did they do that? And I was wrong- I had assumed they'd play us. Looking at that statement above and how you guys turned down the midwest flying, management would have a hard row to hoe.

Thanks, guys.

 

[BoilerUP]

We didn't turn down any Midwest flying (it would be a wet dream to our pilot group living in WI), we simply told the company NO to a b-scale in order to place a "more competitive bid". If the company wants that flying, they'll get that flying - they don't need the help of the pilot group to finance it.

 

[Sig]

Thanks for the clarification, Boiler. That makes your "no" even bolder! Wow. SOMEBODY is playing right.

 

[Victor Meldrew]

Wow! When did they do that? And I was wrong- I had assumed they'd play us. Looking at that statement above and how you guys turned down the midwest flying, management would have a hard row to hoe.

Thanks, guys.

Midwest wanted those interested to submit their quotes by 30th June so it will take a while for them (Midwest) to look through them and work out if that is still the best course of action and make an annoucement either way.

And Boiler is right, the owners were making a clear porfit before concessions and more after concessions and therefore no B Scale the pilots won't fund the airline out of their pockets.

 

[gcsass]

This is like DeJaVu all over again, take away quality of life things and make our lives miserable(layover location, airport appreciation...etc) than sell it back to us! This reminds me of the good ol' days watching mainline gut their contract and destroy their way of life.

Secondly, if we do get these 900's, I see a scenario where 3 years from now we hear the same song and dance in negotiations. "Well if you don't fly em for minimum wage, we'll send em to Mesa. We will have to furlough those 200 to 400 newhires and all those long term FO's who upgraded will get downgraded"

Third....1000 PIC is like turning 16....you have the opportunity to drive, but no one will let you. Just ask all the 7000 hour Captains floating around here who have several thousand hours of PIC and are still here (not by choice).

I am not opposed to helping the company, but this "Take it or leave it" we need an answer yesterday is not how these things should be negotiated.

In the end we are setting up our future and I am talking about 20 years out, not 3.

By the way Crazipilot...that was hilarious!!

 

[D'Angelo]

This is like DeJaVu all over again, take away quality of life things and make our lives miserable(layover location, airport appreciation...etc) than sell it back to us! This reminds me of the good ol' days watching mainline gut their contract and destroy their way of life.

Secondly, if we do get these 900's, I see a scenario where 3 years from now we hear the same song and dance in negotiations. "Well if you don't fly em for minimum wage, we'll send em to Mesa. We will have to furlough those 200 to 400 newhires and all those long term FO's who upgraded will get downgraded"

Third....1000 PIC is like turning 16....you have the opportunity to drive, but no one will let you. Just ask all the 7000 hour Captains floating around here who have several thousand hours of PIC and are still here (not by choice).

I am not opposed to helping the company, but this "Take it or leave it" we need an answer yesterday is not how these things should be negotiated.

In the end we are setting up our future and I am talking about 20 years out, not 3.

By the way Crazipilot...that was hilarious!!

Its not only the 1000PIC thats important. Its the payraise you get with an upgrade thats most important. Again a contract with fantastic benefits, work rules, etc. is worthless without growth. If your gonna be a career FO then your still stuck at a dead end. Id rather be growing and making more money than in a dead end job.

 

[Crzipilot]

Wet dream to live in WI??? Dunno 'bout that...LOL....

 

[BoilerUP]

Wet dream to live in WI??? Dunno 'bout that...LOL....

I dunno about wet dream to live there, but wet dream to drive to work instead of commuting to PHL or DCA? Yeah, I'd say that fits for a fair chunk...

 

[Clipper_Aurora]

This is what it all boils down to....

1. REALLY senior CA's will majority will vote yes for the sake of thier Career at PSA

2. Majority of J4J CA's will vote yes for sake of slots

3. Majority of all other CA's (middle the road) they will vote no, they have nothing to gain only to drop due to slots, and no raise till possibly 2009

4. Now the people that will make the decision are the FO's, really senior ones will vote yes for IC and $25 dollar an hour raise (give or take) real junior FO's will vote yes for long awaited line holding and puts 150 pilots beneath them, middle of the road FO's 2-3 years don't know what the hell to do, because the middle of the road CA's are convincing some this is not good, and then the others are smart and knows that it is a good thing!

MY ADVICE to fellow FO'S do what is best for you.....others don't give a sh&t about you....they already have their 1000PIC hours and sitting left seat, house kids family etc.......what do we have? foodstamps, poor wages, livin in mommy's basement, seat locked FO flying with J4J's (majority) that thinks they are gods gift to flying.

make the right choice, if we don't get them, MESA will and PSA will be shut down within a couple years later.

PARKERS team says YES or NO

vote yes

 

[Sig]

make the right choice, if we don't get them, MESA will and PSA will be shut down within a couple years later.

I've gotten out of pocket on this thread and beeyotched about things past, so hopefully by admitting it I regain some cred.

One of the things I've said about this is that if you think you'll have a bargaining chip in the future, you certainly have the same one now.

On top of that, Mesa is a crap product. Check Doug's Feb or Jan PHX crew news to pilots, about 00:42:10 he says the words, "Gosh, MESA sucks." This in response to a PSA CA's complaint about their atrocious service as he tries to nonrev to work-- out of an outstation PSA as well as PDT serves. It's still there, but you have to wait until the stream buffers that far into the meeting.

Look. Mainline is ready to invest in planes. If they wanted a crap lift airline to fly them, they'd put out an RFP first to see who whores and how low. Mesa already shamed themselves with that flying; why are mainline managers looking to expand a wholly-owned at their expense rather than throwing some more cheese at the rats that are already doing it? That's important to realize.

There is a reason you're getting tapped to expand over the only 900 operator in the system already- they can't stand them. Need proof? THE CEO SAID THEY SUCK, and they do. You DO have a chip.

Good luck. Tough hand to play.

***Furthermore,

I've been under the assumption that the mainline MEC is watching this deal. Consider that.

One final, loud and proud sentiment is the fact that up until May every crew news webcast at both PHX and CLT forced Doug to field questions about contract lift (mainly Mesa), and why not the WOs doing more flying instead of them. Watch the webcasts. The mainline pilots we all want to be seem to want to protect us. Consider that as well.

And, uh... Mesa sucks.