Psa J4J

[trainer8]

That's about as clear as mudd

Precisely, and probably a good reason why a flow through agreement hasn't been signed.

T8

 

[FishNwithDene]

ALG/PDT pilots were CEL pilots when they went to MDA; a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways using the US Air call sign to appease the pilots. ALG/PDT pilots are still CEL pilots! They just got cozy with someone to get on the APL list when the writing was on the walls. And now we know why.

ALG/PDT said no to the J4J program a long time ago, so there is no J4J program for you at PSA. I'm sick and tired of the: What’s mine is mine and what's yours is mine mentality in this industry! ALG/PDT was good enough for you before so go back there.

 

[RUhiring?]

Interesting comment about ALG/PDT saying no to J4J, and now those same guys want to be a part of it. I'm sure they are the same guys who said PSA stabbed them in the back and called us whores. Now they want to work here.

Should be interesting.

 

[Flyin2low]

Why should somebody who flowed out of one company to another, be able to move over to yet another company? I think that the USAirways group still owns a financing company. Could these pilots, who are out of work, be able to flow down to desk jobs there too?

 

[FR8mastr]

ALG/PDT pilots were CEL pilots when they went to MDA; a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways using the US Air call sign to appease the pilots. ALG/PDT pilots are still CEL pilots!

What the heck are you talking about? MDA never was a WO EVER.
If you really work for PSA then you should know management would never do anything to appease anyone except there own bank account. The us air call sign is used because they have to by law.

 

[FR8mastr]

Interesting comment about ALG/PDT saying no to J4J, and now those same guys want to be a part of it. I'm sure they are the same guys who said PSA stabbed them in the back and called us whores. Now they want to work here.

Should be interesting.

You are correct, PSA did stab the other two in the back. We knew the problems with J4J and all agreed not to sign on, PSA however did the end run to get them for themselves. You have it, now deal with it!

 

[FR8mastr]

Why should somebody who flowed out of one company to another, be able to move over to yet another company? I think that the USAirways group still owns a financing company. Could these pilots, who are out of work, be able to flow down to desk jobs there too?

Yes, because they are now (when furloughed) APL pilots. The same rules apply to those APL pilots as all the rest of them. Sure that sucks but that is J4J. Again this is why ALG and PDT were trying to get a better deal prior to PSA breaking the pact.

 

[Crzipilot]

Sure that sucks but that is J4J. Again this is why ALG and PDT were trying to get a better deal prior to PSA breaking the pact.

Fr8,

Could you expand on this a little more? There are alot of individuals that seem to have a dog in this fight, that don't know that side of the history of the program. (myself included, heard bits and pieces) Anyways, some of the flack being stired up are by some that weren't even around when this program was put in place.
Thanks.

 

[FishNwithDene]

FR8mastr,

Spoken like a true APL wannabe. Yeah, I figured that WO comment would torque you off...Please tell me more about this "pact" and the better deal that ALG/PDT were after.

 

[trainer8]

FR8mastr,

Spoken like a true APL wannabe. Yeah, I figured that WO comment would torque you off...Please tell me more about this "pact" and the better deal that ALG/PDT were after.

Don't waste your time replying to this guy FR8mastr...or anyone else. All this bloke wants to do is pick a fight. Just look at his FI profile and that should tell you everything. :laugh:

T8

 

[FishNwithDene]

Don't waste your time replying to this guy this FR8mastr...or anyone else. All this bloke wants to do is pick a fight. Just look at his FI profile and that should tell you everything. :laugh:

T8

Yeah, my FI Profile is real accurate. I noticed yours too: Dash and E-170. Looks like another POed WOed APL wanna be that is owed a job at PSA.

 

[WSurf]

You are correct, PSA did stab the other two in the back. We knew the problems with J4J and all agreed not to sign on, PSA however did the end run to get them for themselves. You have it, now deal with it!

Don't know how true that is? I think US Airways knew way ahead of time that the RJ's were gonna go to PSA! They were gonna be losing the DoProps and they were more of a junior pilot group.
If they hadn't signed along with ALG/PDT I think the jets still would have went there.
Sucks they signed a deal with the devil (aka US Airways ALPA).

Good Luck!

 

[trainer8]

Yeah, my FI Profile is real accurate. I noticed yours too: Dash and E-170. Looks like another POed WOed APL wanna be that is owed a job at PSA.

The profile is accurate, and no, I'm not interested in going to PSA, nor am I "owed a job" at PSA. At least looking at my profile, you can tell my experience level. By the looks of your posts, your's is accurately reflecting more than just your inexperience...:erm:

T8

 

[FR8mastr]

FR8mastr,

Spoken like a true APL wannabe. Yeah, I figured that WO comment would torque you off...Please tell me more about this "pact" and the better deal that ALG/PDT were after.

That would take alot of typing, but the main things were to hold out for additional aircraft, not replacement aircraft. And another major item was to make sure that the WOed were placed on the ML seniority list first.

 

[FR8mastr]

Fr8,

Could you expand on this a little more? There are alot of individuals that seem to have a dog in this fight, that don't know that side of the history of the program. (myself included, heard bits and pieces) Anyways, some of the flack being stired up are by some that weren't even around when this program was put in place.
Thanks.

I will try and be brief because there is alot of stuff.

Basically US Airways management was coming to all 3 WO companies telling us to sign on for J4J or they will give all the possible future jets to another WO that did/will sign on. So the 3 WO mec's got together and made a deal to not do this and stop the attempted whipsaw of our respective pilot groups. There was also talk among the groups to keep each other informed of the goings on so that the lying and blackmail by management would not work. This deal was working for a little while, then we started hearing less and less from the PSA mec chairman. When we did communicate we (PDT/ ALG) were told nothing was going on and all was well. As a result of this, both PDT/ALG were holding out for a more fair J4J deal. One of the most important parts of what we wanted was for J4J to only apply to additional aircraft not just the replacement of our Dashes or DO 328's.
J4J requires 50% of the jobs to go to ML pilots, if you replaced 25 props with 25 jets the WO company would lose half on their incumbant pilots in the deal.
So needless to say this is bad.
Anyway PSA made a deal with management and never even let the other two WO know they were doing it. That left PDT ALG in a really tight spot.
ALG was whittled down and merged into PDT and now PDT is smaller combined that they were prior to the merger.
I hope this helped.

 

[Dash8301]

Don't have the one saying ALG guys can choose which they flow back to....haven't seen such a thing.

The main ones are LOA 84/91/92/93 most of it's been cut/pasted here or elsewhere... Think they are on 61 site too..... Hence some of the arguements and theories thrown out here are far fetched...

That comes from LOA 91 and 92. Which are the only ones the PDT MEC agreeded to. LOA 93 was never agreed to and the last I knew Duane Worthless had not even signed it. I have a full copy of both 91 and 92 in a box somewhere ( I'm moving right now). I believe LOA 84 was the flow through back in the mid 90's taht went nowhere. But 91 and 92 were a part of the small jet restructing agreement in 2002 and the estabishment of MDA via the CEL. What makes 91 and 92 binding is A. the pay cuts and B. the application of the CEL at MDA.

 

[trainer8]

...if you replaced 25 props with 25 jets the WO company would lose half on their incumbant pilots in the deal. So needless to say this is bad.
Anyway PSA made a deal with management and never even let the other two WO know they were doing it....That left PDT ALG in a really tight spot.

The ALG/PDT/PSA position was like a three legged stool. It was stable and strong and Group knew it. The chink in the armor which hasn't been mentioned here was the relative seniority in the WO pilot groups. PSA's relative seniority was considerably junior to ALG and PDT and is reflected combined seniority list. PSA MEC accepted the RJs with low pay rates and defected, removing one leg from the stool. It was very disapponting and caused the collapse of unity within the WO subsidiaries. The whip-sawing worked.

Sour grapes? Yeah, maybe.

T8

 

[EDUC8-or]

ALPA isn't on PSA's side. I was in the training department yesterday and the MDA guys are on the way. The first classes start in March with something like two captains and six FO's. Theoretically more than 200 former MDA pilots have the option to come over here. Look for no in house captain upgrades for a long time. Also, if you're a FO on reserve it might be 2 years until you hold a line. I'm assuming mainline will have to recall pilots in the fall to staff the 190's, but I've flown with several J4J guys who said they would pass it up the first time if it meant them being FO's on the 190 and taking a paycut.

 

[JohnnyP]

...

I dont know about yall but reading posts like this one and other similar ones gives me a headache.