Psa J4J

[Dash8301]

According to the original J4J agreement,the ALG guys would have the option to go to whatever wholly owned their senority would hold that includes Capt slots over at PSA. The PDT guys would have to come back to PDT but none of the PDT guys wanted to come back. Not to mention that the PDT MEC is trying to screw them over by blocking their flow back rights. But that's a whole other thread.

 

[smfav8r]

It is tough to do when your checks every two weeks are $700.
The pressure of car loans, school loans, mortgage, wife, girlfriends etc...
Upgrade is the only light at the end of the tunnel, take that away and
we have nothing left.[/quote]

That's my point exactly! You don't make enough money and this has got to stop!

As a 2nd year F/O on a 70 seat jet you should be making $50K per year! Say capped at $70K a year! (what-ever year the cap is)

2nd year Capt's should be making $75K per year with a cap of about $140K.

Till this happens it's not worth bickering about seniority, J4J, etc.

ALPO ain't gonna due a damn thing for you! So you can forget the union helping out!

Time to put the brakes on all the regional airlines and demand more pay! Period!

 

[WSurf]

True, True! Sad when a Dash 8 FO is making the same or even more then a CRJ-900 Fo! 86 Seats compared to 37!! Sad indeed! I don't know the answer to all this, but I do believe my union dues have done Jack Shi&t to make my future any better!!!
The more people that Fly these aircraft for those rates, well the more mainline flying will be replaced by them....... hence making a job at a mainline carrier that much harder!! Look at those CRJ 900 in CLT, they are replacing Mainline 737's. More EMB 170's at United, NWA making a new WO with 70-100 also with poverty FO Pay rates. Delta now raping Comair and ASA!! This trend will continue until people step up and say thats it. We want to be compensated for what we do and fly!
What to do? What to do? This really darkens the future! I am almost at 1000hrs of PIC now! Then what? Why more qualified furloughed guys out there.... UPS? Fedex? SouthWest, Airtran!!! Thats it!! And they have Thousands of people more qualified!
So adding these Big RJ's makes my leap to the next level very hard!

 

[ex j-41]

This trend will continue until people step up and say thats it. We want to be compensated for what we do and fly!

We have a contract that was accepted by the pilot group. As wrong as
it is, some people thought it was acceptable and voted on it.

All we ask for is a fair wage, decent hotels and a schedule that allows me
to spend more than 1.5 days a week with my kids.
That was too much!

 

[Crzipilot]

According to the original J4J agreement,the ALG guys would have the option to go to whatever wholly owned their senority would hold that includes Capt slots over at PSA. The PDT guys would have to come back to PDT but none of the PDT guys wanted to come back. Not to mention that the PDT MEC is trying to screw them over by blocking their flow back rights. But that's a whole other thread.

Dash8301,

Which original J4J are you referring too, which LOA and such, as I've never seen such conditions in any J4J agreement I've read.....just curious.... As I know there have been revision over revision but this is the first I've heard of this...

 

[ex j-41]

Sitting Reserve

Does anyone have this LOE? Maybe if we had something in
Black and white we would be able to understand what is really
going on.
I would rather hire a personal lawyer then have ALPA's help.
Seing as they are working both sides, they can't win
but can't lose either!

 

[Crzipilot]

Does anyone have this LOE? Maybe if we had something in
Black and white we would be able to understand what is really
going on.
I would rather hire a personal lawyer then have ALPA's help.
Seing as they are working both sides, they can't win
but can't lose either!

Don't have the one saying ALG guys can choose which they flow back to....haven't seen such a thing.

The main ones are LOA 84/91/92/93 most of it's been cut/pasted here or elsewhere... Think they are on 61 site too..... Hence some of the arguements and theories thrown out here are far fetched...

 

[svcta]

nevermind.....

 

[ex j-41]

Word on the street is that the new J4J guys will be F/O's slotted with their
US Airways seniority. Anyone else hear of this?

 

[skydork]

All I've heard is that they offered 3 Capt and 8 FO vacancies. They better not slot FO's, that's just rediculous. There is no language anywhere that allows slotting fo's. Not to my limited knowledge anyway.

 

[dollacrackho]

why would they come to psa as FO's ? if the went to republic would they start at first year FO pay?

 

[OPECJet]

According to the original J4J agreement,the ALG guys would have the option to go to whatever wholly owned their senority would hold that includes Capt slots over at PSA. The PDT guys would have to come back to PDT but none of the PDT guys wanted to come back. Not to mention that the PDT MEC is trying to screw them over by blocking their flow back rights. But that's a whole other thread.

You are correct on former ALG pilots being able to bid slots at any participating wholly owned, however, you don't have the slightest clue about the rest of it.

Where were you when open meetings were going on discussing this topic, and other PDT topics? You sure as hell weren't at those meetings.....

 

[trainer8]

Would one have received a furlough notice from MDA if one had taken the position flying the same aircraft for the same pay from the same base with Republic?

Yes.

and no....

First, regardless of what the PSA MECC says, MDA pilots, including the CEL pilots at MDA, are US Airways Pilots. MDA is..er...was... the Embraer Division of US Airways. Same Part 121 Operating Certificate as AAA and it is no different then Shuttle or the past MetroJet. This is confirmed by the AAA MEC, and US Airways Company officers, under sworn testimony. All of the E-170 Division Pilots appear on the US Airways Pilot's seniority list by their date of hire, and subsequent APL lists as appropriate, if furloughed.

They are notified of furlough and placed on the APL list, making them eligible for J4J protocols with PWO Carriers. They have been afforded 140 positions at Republic--50% of the total positions based on 28 E-170 airframes at 10 crews per airframe. Pay is based on AAA MDA longevity and domicile awards are based on DOH with Republic....for now. As of today, officially, of the 140 positions offered by Republic, 70 positions have been filled, by MDA pilots. Seems some on this board believe they never went...not true.

PSA received its financing through US Airways Leasing and various banks for its small jets and PSA's MEC signed up to be a PWO and is subject to J4J protocol. The PSA MEC's letter to the ALPA President implies generosity on the part of the PSA MEC to help out J4J pilots, when, in fact, the opposite may be true. Had there been no small jets, no PWO, what would have happened to those 25 DO Props?

Flow back has been in negotiations. Consensus of the flowback in 2004 was to return to the same seat with same seniority and same pay, but returning pilots could not displace anyone in their current position at the PWO. A proposal snuck out on the Internet from the PDT NC in September 05 and revealed that this consensus had changed and that a returning Captain would return as a new hire with a J4J style of seat filling; also, if recalled to AAA, AAA pilots who were the original CEL pilots at MDA would recall only in the original CEL order, forfeiting their original position to a PWO CEL who never flew for AAA. This was true for pilots who chose not to flow back, also.

The AAA MEC recently removed the "ghost numbers" from the Seniority List that indicated non-US Airways pilot CEL numbers.

To the best of my knowledge...that is the way it is.

T8

 

[Flyin2low]

A proposal snuck out on the Internet from the PDT NC in September 05 and revealed that this consensus had changed and that a returning Captain would return as a new hire with a J4J style of seat filling; also, if recalled to AAA, AAA pilots who were the original CEL pilots at MDA would recall only in the original CEL order, forfeiting their original position to a PWO CEL who never flew for AAA. This was true for pilots who chose not to flow back, also.

T8

That's about as clear as mudd

 

[nethan]

That's about as clear as mudd

The way I understand it is that the "flow up" would be based on their position on the APL and not where they were on the CEL before they flowed up to Mid Atlantic. If you go with the assumption that MDA was in fact a part of mainline then that makes sense as they made the jump to mainline already and they are being recalled and not flowing up at all. In other words, even though some of these guys are junior to people still at the WOs on the CEL, they would go back at their AAA recall status before senior people at WOs would go back at their CEL status. That's how I understand it. I've got no dog in that fight as I am so junior that it won't matter. I am more worried about the downflow.

Also, I don't think anybody is disputing the origional J4J deal and whether it was fair or not. We got jets, and AAA pilots. Also, nobody is disputing the fact that they didn't fill all the spots when the deal first happened. I think where there is a difference of opinon is do those unfilled spots still exsist or did they go away when they couldn't be filled the first time around.

Still probably looks muddy, and I doubt it will get any clearer until it is over.

 

[Crzipilot]

Couple of things.....

1. The person that said there were slots offered???? Where did you see this, as there is no mention of it on the J4J section on the weboard, which anounces the vacancy processing.

2. slotting of f/o's.....Well slotting of f/o's already happened, as there were 1 or 2 j4j's that stayed in a f/o slot, and they were slotted in CLT.

3. I think the difference of opinion is, the BACKFILL positions. Maybe the total number of positions too, but I think it's more the backfill. Where the total number of positions that were attained by J4J people. As they resigned left, whatever. They weren't offered as backfill to those that were out on Medical or Military or otherwise unavailable. Or to those that were furloughed down the line. The other contention is whether the CEL guys can jump from PDT/ALG to MDA back to PSA.

 

[PoorJetDriver]

Additionally, if the ALG/PDT pilots have been added to the AAA seniority list then how were they hiring with pilots on furlough? That would mean bypass pay for every furloughed AAA APL pilot. The lawsuits will keep on coming.

 

[FR8mastr]

The cel guys were put on the AAA list because they were/are flying for AAA. They had this opportunity bacause the furloughed AAA guys bypassed on the 170 division and they needed pilots. None of the cel guys are senior to any of the furloughed guys so I dont think they care.

This is actually part of the lawsuit the mda guys have. Management with the help of the AAA mec were trying to decieve the pilots into believing MDA was not Airways. This has since been proven not to be the case, therefore the pilots at the division are all on the Airways seniority list no matter where they came from.

 

[PoorJetDriver]

What about the rest of the CEL pilots that were senior but indicated a preference of MDA Captain or US Airways only? Have they been bypassed?

 

[trainer8]

What about the rest of the CEL pilots that were senior but indicated a preference of MDA Captain or US Airways only? Have they been bypassed?

Good question. Technically, MDA doesn't exist, only the Embraer Division of Us Airways. It will be sorted out eventually...probably when I'm age 60. But for now, the ghost numbers have been removed, indicating the future slots are gone.

I understand that the PDT MEC is trying to have them re-instated.

T8