Psa J4J

[svcta]

SVCTA,

just to get a few facts straight. Look up the definition of an Affected Pilot. And how one goes about getting onto the APL list.

And a quick correction, is that the lawsuit they filed wasn't saying they were never part of mainline, quite the opposite. The arbitration they went through, was the company saying they were a seperate division, and their arguement was that they weren't. The airplanes going to republic was a change of control, not a simple sale of assets.

Anyways, alot of the arguments and assumptions that many have come up, just basically prove that the majority of you haven't read the LOA's governing this. If one did, some of the statements made wouldn't have been made.

Okay everbody, tell me if I just don't read that well. It seems pretty clear that the argument was that the MDA pilots were fooled....they were never aware that MDA was mainline.......

"About 230 MidAtlantic Airways pilots are suing three airlines and their union for $400 million claiming they were duped into believing that MidAtlantic was its own (lower-paying) entity when it was, in fact, part of (higher-paying) US Airways. In fact, MidAtlantic hired some of the 1,800 pilots that had been laid off by US Airways. "As it turns out, there was no MidAtlantic," Michael Haber, the New York lawyer representing the pilots, told the Allegheny Times. "It was never anything except a name. These people were tricked into believing they worked for an entity that never existed." The suit claims MidAtlantic was operated under the same government certificate as US Airways. It also claims the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) was complicit in the scam. The pilots claim ALPA and US Airways camouflaged the fact that MidAtlantic was not a separate airline and negotiated wage and benefits packages for the regional carrier that were substantially less than what employees would receive as employees of US Airways. MidAtlantic was recently sold to Republic Airlines, which is also named in the suit, as is America West and Republic's investment company, Wexford Capital."

Whaddya make of that?

 

[Crzipilot]

SVCTA - this was your comment.

" Now....weren't the pilots @ MDA just involved in a law suit against everyone(who's whining now) stating that they WERE A SEPARATE COMPANY from mainline? "


The lawsuit, (which I'm not involved in and just have limited 2nd hand knowledge of) Does stipulate what you have posted from whatever press release. BUT the MDA pilots are not stating that they were a seperate company. What they are stating is in effect, MDA was NEVER a seperate entity, and certain US management are on record (arbitration case) as saying such. The lawsuit is that in effect, those positions should have been shown as recalled to USAIRWAYS as they were flying under that certificate. I believe it also stipulates that since they should have been shown as flying for US, they should have been flying under the US contract, and not a thrown together AA eagle contract which never was really formulated. And the lawsuit is against alpa saying that they knew of this, and allowed this and etc etc........so basically they weren't whining that they were a seperate company, they were whining that MDA was supposed to have a seperate certificate and seperate managment and a seperate entity. It never was. In fact pilots at MDA sit on the PHL Mainline LEC. How is that alpa would allow a seperate airline sit on it's LEC???

Your quote made it sound as though you were saying that MDA lawsuit was to prove that they were a seperate company.....quite the opposite I believe. They were told by ALPA and Company they were a seperate airline. In effect they were not.....hence the lawsuit to prove they were part of US.....mainline I guess...

Lawsuit = two sides
Company side/Alpa = MDA was seperate
MDA pilots = it was same

 

[Crzipilot]

The original 70 jets were operated by Mesa, Trans States and Chatauqua. Not all 70 went to Mesa.[/quote]


Not sure of the complete numbers but TSA and CHQ did and do have J4J pilots on property. There was a tracking list somewhere by tail number I believe that showed the exempt airframes and which had to comply to J4J. The explanation we got was, the mesa birds were the ones expempt and hence replaced by AWAC they get grandfathered. Agree with it??/ No....but that's alpa.

Not enough info out there to track it by oneself, nor do I know how they choose which 70 were exempt....I'm sure alpa has that info...LOL

 

[PoorJetDriver]

Aircraft were added after the j4j implementation at both Trans States and Chatauqua, however not very many. Trans States I believe only added 1 or 2 airframes. Among the contract carriers Mesa added the most. If you spent any time in PHL F crew room you would have seen many J4J participants at Mesa. They numbered at their peak over 120?. Somebody else could give better information than I. Mesa's entire CRJ operation in PHL during '04 it is my understanding, consisted of J4J aircraft. Again, there are those far better than I that could provide more specific information regarding specific airframes.

 

[ex j-41]

Alpa Question

Is it me or is it a conflict of interest when ALPA represents the
"Furloughed Mainline Pilots ie: J4J dudes" and they also represent the pilots
at PSA. So whose best interests do they have in mind?

Sounds like ALPA is both the Defendant and the Prosecutor.
It that really ethical? Are our dues going to pay for the J4J's legal
representation?

 

[smfav8r]

Is it me or is it a conflict of interest when ALPA represents the
"Furloughed Mainline Pilots ie: J4J dudes" and they also represent the pilots
at PSA. So whose best interests do they have in mind?

Sounds like ALPA is both the Defendant and the Prosecutor.
It that really ethical? Are our dues going to pay for the J4J's legal
representation?

I agree with you 100%. ALPA has really been playing both sides of the fence for quite some time now and it's beginning to bite them in the butt! I'm a furloughed US guy and I see both sides.

On one side, you have PSA, they had about 25 to 30 328 turbo-props. Now they have about 50 jets. For the 100 or so J4J guys and a 80%+ fleet increase to a all jet fleet, that's not too bad.

But, and this is a big one, senior F/O's have seen upgrade time windle.

It is a double edge sword!

Would PSA have all those shiny new jets if not for the J4J program? Or would they still be flying the 328 with no/minimal upgrades? Who knows?

Untill ALPA gives a little respect, not just take money from the regional airline pilots, this will continue!

What it really comes down to is every pilot at PSA should be making at lot more then the contract stipulates. (PSA and J4J)

Untill this happens, it's not worth bickering about seniority and upgrade!

Your flying jets with lots of lives every day in your hands, you should be compensated for it!

Just my 2 cents!

 

[ex j-41]

Oh Oh

On one side, you have PSA, they had about 25 to 30 328 turbo-props. Now they have about 50 jets. For the 100 or so J4J guys and a 80%+ fleet increase to a all jet fleet, that's not too bad.

I agree....And if getting J4J dudes on the property was the deal then so
be it. I don't think that any pilot at PSA thinks that they should not be
there at all. It is that the "New" ones are coming over when their jets
are at Republic that raises question.
How can we expect our Union to do the right thing when clearly they are
right in the middle of the two pilot groups.
Each group needs to be represented seperately.

Untill this happens, it's not worth bickering about seniority and upgrade!

It is tough to do when your checks every two weeks are $700.
The pressure of car loans, school loans, mortgage, wife, girlfriends etc...
Upgrade is the only light at the end of the tunnel, take that away and
we have nothing left.

 

[WSurf]

$700? Didn't know it was that bad over there!

 

[PoorJetDriver]

There have been very few Dornier FO's upgraded. I would guess less than 40.

 

[ex j-41]

Ouch

$700? Didn't know it was that bad over there!

And that is flying the 70 seater...and 2 not so skinny f/a's.