Profiling

[SkyBoy1981]

I feel for you Murphy. It really is ridiculous to see the people who fight for our freedom have to go through such nonsense.

Flyer1015, you keep detouring the topic with references to the war in Iraq (as you liberals are known for doing). The topic is profiling...lets stick with that.

 

[Flyer1015]

You still didn't answer my questions, chief....so I will ask them again. What if the tables were turned and this situation were the other way around? What if we had a group of "radical Americans" who were commiting random acts of terror against Muslims? And no, don't feed me this "but you already are" bullsh!t. We aren't planting bombs on busses and we aren't running airplanes into office buildings for the purpose of causing fear and terror among the innocent people. Do you think the muslim community would be as tolerant and accepting of what has happened as Americans have been if we were the ones who commited these acts? Do you think they would refrain from profiling any and all Americans? Do you think they would be afraid to hold Americans at gunpoint in an airport security line and make us strip down to nothing in fear that it might offend us? I don't think so, and if you do then you need to wake up and smell the house burning down.

I honestly don't know how it would be the other way around. If we were living in Afghanistan, and we did terrorist acts against them, then we probably would be profiled at gunpoint.

*BUT* that's due to the fact that you have no rights under the Taliban rule. An official government form was non-existent under their rule.

We here at America have a constitution, and a bill of rights that need to be honored for our people living here. As soon as you start to discriminate (profile) we go back on everything people have fought for in this country.

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

But nope... President Bush, and the conservatives, in their never-ending pursuit to circumvent the constitution, invent the term "Enemy Combatant" and hold him and others giving them no rights.

We are at war with terror. We are at war with Iraq (and were at Afghanistan)... ANYONE caputred in this WAR of terror is a prisoner of WAR. But nope, Bush circumvents the constitution by calling them "enemy combatants," and does not hold them to geneva conventions and the standards set out for prisoners of war.

I'm sorry, but it will be the conservatives who will be our downfall. They have already divided the world with their current actions, and continue to make America more and more hated all across the world... leading to a more dangerous environment for all of us.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I honestly don't know how it would be the other way around. If we were living in Afghanistan, and we did terrorist acts against them, then we probably would be profiled at gunpoint.

dang right we would.

We here at America have a constitution, and a bill of rights that need to be honored for our people living here. As soon as you start to discriminate (profile) we go back on everything people have fought for in this country.

While I have the utmost respect for these documents, they were created during a time when people had morals and common sense. You see, back then people didn't want to blow themselves up on busses for the sole purpose of causing death and destruction to innocent people. These were not issues that had to be dealt with back then. Thanks to lawyers, and you liberals, nothing can be taken for granted anymore. Everything has to be spelled out, word for word. Pretty soon we will need to create documents for people explaining to them that pants go on one leg at a time, and you should walk one foot in front of the other. Oh, and don't forget to breath while you're at it.

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

Good point, there's needs to be much more scruitiny on who is becomming citizens in our country. There's no reason that people should be allowed to come over with the intent of causing us harm and manage to become a US citizen. There needs to be ways to filter these people out.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Furthermore, the Constitution was created to protect those who are innocent. What sickens me is that in today's world it seems to be used more to protect the guilty.

 

[Flyer1015]

Skyboy,

I understand exactly where you're coming from. I respect your opinion, and understand why you feel that way.

But, as always in politics, there are always different sides that people take. We happen to be on different sides


Murphy,

Sorry about your ordeal. I already stated my views about the stupid TSA organization. You can scroll back to read if you'd like. I think it's completely unacceptable to harass flight / cabin crews as they currently are. And of course, they 'conveniently' let pass the mechanics, cleaners, etc. etc.

 

[kmox29]

No other country in the world has oppressed the middle east as bad as the US has in the last 40-50 years. It's about time we admit the root of terror. Fess up to the injustices.

My next door neighbor from Iraq would disagree with you. But I am sure you have some obscure point to prove HIM even wrong. Maybe I should put him in touch with you so you could convince him the US government is a form of terrorism and how we are forcing a terrible lifestyle on the Iraqi people.

Anyhow, we should still be able to profile (my original thread).

 

[Sir Humpalot]

Skyboy,

I will answer your mundane question. Try to think and absorb it in before you start opening your flap. If americans hijacked airplanes and crashed it into buildings, then americans will be profiled by countries who dont value freedom as much as america does. There were saudis who hijacked that airplane and yet america is in bed with them. Many muslims are not saudi, nor do they care to be. Muslims are a great diverse of people, more diverse than christians are. They come from all walks of life and many of my friends are white americans who converted to islam. How would you profile them? How would you profile Padilla? I spoke to the head of the TSA in the western region and he talked about how profiling was wrong. Yes, the head of the TSA spoke about it and i am sure he knows more than you.

But if we are overseas and giving people that so called FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY, then why are we taking away people's right here. AS i said earlier, democracy through hypocricy. Its easy for you to say profile cuz you are the one who wants to take away people's rights, the oppressor of so many, but if anyone wants to take away your rights (guns, free speech,..etc), i bet you will be the one biatchin.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

The american government is a hypocritical organization that wants to protect its elitist status. They want to control as many countries that they can and in the process use any means. We supported Saddam, General Pinochet, Noriega, the shah of Iran, and countless other dictators but as soon as they upset big bad america, we overthrew them.

If we support democracy so much, why is it that we didnt recognize the democratically elected Islamic party in Algeria? DEMOCRACY THROUGH HYPOCRICY.

We support Israel, a huge violator of human rights and UN resolutions (General Assembly Resolution 194, Security Council Resolution 242, Security Council Resolution 446, General Assembly Resolution 3236) but yet we dont invade israel? Why is that,... cuz america is Israel's Biatch. Yet, you talk about people's rights in Iraq like America invented human rights. There is a reason why people dont like the american government and the hypocrites that defend it.

I also fought in the first gulf war and i have served my country, there is absolutely no reason why i or any muslim should be profiled because of our religion. As far as i know, the constitution and our amendments didnt change after 911.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I spoke to the head of the TSA in the western region and he talked about how profiling was wrong. Yes, the head of the TSA spoke about it and i am sure he knows more than you..

Oh, the head of the prized TSA said that huh? Then it must certainly be true, after all there is an agency that has everything figured out.

I said nothing about profiling islamic Americans. The profile should be those who are not citizens of our country, male, of middle eastern descent, who aren't traveling with their families and such. I said nothing about profiling each and every islamic individual.

Common sense says, in order to prevent another 9/11 type attack, we have to think of ways we could have prevented the last one. The way I see it if more detailed security screening had been done to the profile of individual that I listed above on 9/11 (which fits the profile of the majority of Al Quaeda), the attacks very well may not have happened. But since that is such a violation of rights, and you are the educated liberal here, please tell me in your infinite wisdom what is a better solution to prevent such an attack from happening again?

I think the bottom line here is that we can only agree to disagree. As Flyer said, you have your views and I have mine.

 

[Black Water Dog]

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

But nope... President Bush, and the conservatives, in their never-ending pursuit to circumvent the constitution, invent the term "Enemy Combatant" and hold him and others giving them no rights.

Since you presumably are a pilot, you probably have a passport close at hand. Read the first few pages. You become an enemy combatant, you forfiet your citizenship. BTW, enemy combatant is a rather old term defined in the Geneva Convention and probably goes back much further than that. Not invented by Bush. Here is a test for you:

BUSH
BUSH
BUSH

Is your blood pressure up now? Remember Flyer1015, when you hate someone they own you.

 

[Flyer1015]

Oh, the head of the prized TSA said that huh? Then it must certainly be true, after all there is an agency that has everything figured out.

I said nothing about profiling islamic Americans. The profile should be those who are not citizens of our country, male, of middle eastern descent, who aren't traveling with their families and such. I said nothing about profiling each and every islamic individual.

As far as the rest of it, we can only agree to disagree. As Flyer said, you have your views and I have mine.

But how can you, say, as a TSA screener, be able to profile ONLY non-US citizens of middle eastern decent travelling alone? How would you know if the guy is born in Riyadh or born right here in the states? How do you even know if he's middle eastern... could be indian, a sikh, southeast asian, etc.

On a domestic flight from DFW-LGA for example, all the airline knows is your name, address, credit card number, etc. Who knows if the person is a US citizen or not? No passport is required for domestic travel.

Anyway, I think we've come to an end on this subject: we all have different views, and each has presented them. Some people favor profiling, some (like myself) don't.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

But how can you, say, as a TSA screener, be able to profile ONLY non-US citizens of middle eastern decent travelling alone? How would you know if the guy is born in Riyadh or born right here in the states? How do you even know if he's middle eastern... could be indian, a sikh, southeast asian, etc.

On a domestic flight from DFW-LGA for example, all the airline knows is your name, address, credit card number, etc. Who knows if the person is a US citizen or not? No passport is required for domestic travel.

Anyway, I think we've come to an end on this subject: we all have different views, and each has presented them. Some people favor profiling, some (like myself) don't.

The TSA is a federal government agency. They could do this very easily. Just as they profile people who have one way tickets and no luggage. The information is there, and if they wanted it they could get access to it. The bottom line is a bunch of pansies who are scared that we are going to offend someone are potentially making us vulnerable to more attacks. In any case, I'm done here.

 

[Sir Humpalot]

skyboy,

ok, lets agree to disagree...even though i dont agree with you, i respect your opinion and your right to have one.

peace in da midda east

 

[Flyer1015]

Since you presumably are a pilot, you probably have a passport close at hand. Read the first few pages. You become an enemy combatant, you forfiet your citizenship. BTW, enemy combatant is a rather old term defined in the Geneva Convention and probably goes back much further than that. Not invented by Bush. Here is a test for you:

BUSH
BUSH
BUSH

Is your blood pressure up now? Remember Flyer1015, when you hate someone they own you.

Ok, I didn't know about that thing being in the passport.

But still answer this, ALL of our prisoners we capture while at WAR with Iraq and Afghanistan SHOULD be considered Prisoners of War... POWs. And as such, they should be treated the same way that the Geneva conventions sets for all POWs. They're called 'enemy combatants' simply so they don't have to upheld to the Geneva convention standards, and HUNDREDS of them are being held at Guantanamo Bay (and quite a few of them I'm sure are innocent).

And about Bush... ask him about his claim that the world is now safer due to the war in Iraq. Hmmm, two different london bombing episodes, bombs in Beirut Lebanon, and more bombs in Egypt at tourist locations... all in less than three weeks. Oh, and the yellow-level 'elevated' threat level... please!

Can you honestly look at Bush and say that what he's done in the last few years has made the world safer? If you can, share some of that weed with me, I could use some getting high'.

 

[atrdriver]

Example. Jose Padilla. Terrorist? You bet. Bad guy? Yes. BUT... he is still a CITIZEN of the United States. And as such, he SHOULD be afforded all the rights for a US citizen including the right to fair representation, a fair and speedy trial.

But nope... President Bush, and the conservatives, in their never-ending pursuit to circumvent the constitution, invent the term "Enemy Combatant" and hold him and others giving them no rights.

OK, let's not call him an "enemy combatant", let call him what he really is, a traitor. And if I'm not mistaken that is the only crime with a punishment outlined in the constititution.

 

[I Hate Freight]

and get over the middle easter arab things. i fly with a bunch of great guys from iran jordan etc etc plus lets not forget oklahoma city timothy mcviegh everyone

Every time someone mentions the arabs, some politically correct apologist for the terorrists must bring up McVeigh. Here are the stats:

McVeigh 1
Muslim male extremists 1000

Now, take this quiz:


In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
(a) Olga Corbutt
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzeneger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

During the 1980s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of
dynamite left over from the train job.
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Michael Jordan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida
(c) Mr. Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a) Enron
(b) The Lutheran Church
(c) The NFL
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40 In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonny and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

 

[SkyBoy1981]

ROFL!! I Hate Freight, you rock dude. That is the best post on this topic yet. Nicely done.

 

[Flyer1015]

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
(a) Olga Corbutt
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzeneger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

How convenient to leave out that they were Israeli athletes. Terrorists struck out at Israels (and continue to do so today) for the injustices Israel has commited against Palestinians. There are always two sides to every story.

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40 [/QHOTE]

Hmmm. If only we hadn't supported the Iranian shah, and then staged an overthrow of their government.

During the 1980s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Terrorists were probably pissed at the American involvement in the middle east, and with one sided support with Israel.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

Marines posted in a middle eastern country during a non-war time probably pissed off the terrorists. Maybe they just wanted the US troops to leave. Who knows. I do feel bad for the Marines, though. Our armed forces members are the ones who continuosly pay for the mistakes of our government.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

... probably in retaliation for *something* the US and/or Israel had done to opress them.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

A very sad ordeal. Again, the foreign policy of ours and the oppression of the middle east are reasons. Why didn't they hijack British Airways, Qantas, Air France, Lufthansa, etc? Because the governments of those countries has not committed anything in the middle east. The hijacking is no way justified, but in the minds of terrorists, it's the only thing to do to get worldwide attention... aparently, I guess throwing rocks didn't work.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of
dynamite left over from the train job.
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Hmmm.... which country's government shot down an innocent Iranian civilian airliner, killing hundreds of men/women/children, after "mistaking" the climbing aircraft as a fast descending "threat..." ??? Oh yes, our government. No doubt this Pan Am shooting down was in retaliation.

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Michael Jordan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida
(c) Mr. Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

All very sad events. Tremendous amounts of innocent lives lost. But the terrorists had their reasons. And note that each of those attacks were either against the US, or Israel.

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a) Enron
(b) The Lutheran Church
(c) The NFL
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

The war was against the Taliban and terrorist training camps. I'm glad we went in. The war was against all extremists radical muslims, and hell, even white Americans who joined the Taliban... John Lindh.

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonny and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

I feel bad for the guy. But again, a jewish guy reporting on muslims in a muslim country that already hates jews. Are you surprised the terrorists killed him?


I think this has gone far enough. We've all made our points. There are always two sides to every story.

 

[kmox29]

Oh my God, we sooooo had it coming. I get it now...we deserved everything we got. Go Terrorism! Get that nasty US Government!


I'm going to vomit now...not sure if it's because of this thread or the Jager-Bombs.

 

[Flyer1015]

Oh my God, we sooooo had it coming. I get it now...we deserved everything we got. Go Terrorism! Get that nasty US Government!


I'm going to vomit now...not sure if it's because of this thread or the Jager-Bombs.

Of course we dont deserve it. But you have to be honest, we had it coming... ever since the first failed WTC bombing... that was the first 'establishment' of them terrorists attacking the US mainland soil. And then 9/11 happened, and now all the bombings in London, Lebanon, and Egypt.

Sadly, with terorists like these, it's not a matter of ' if ', but when.

I think CNN repoeted that a "majority" of American people believe another attack in the USA is likely. Again, not if, but when.

Sadly, THAT is today's reality.