Professional pilots pay and non professional immigrants pay.

[Dash8301]

Because we have people that say they will FLY FOR FREE.

I think it's worse than you thought we have people (MAG FAGS) that would PAY TO FLY

 

[pinkbush]

I have no problem flying for 50 seat pay. Call it "lowering the bar" but as long as there's pilots out there like myself, truck drivers will always make more cash than us.

 

[Green]

Call me crazy but I just don't think 90k is anything to write home about these days. That should be on the low end of fo pay. We should be in the 200-300k range for an airline captain. I keep bringing this up on the boards but the AVERAGE ATC pay is 165k per year including benefits. Now lets assume benefits are worth 30k/year (high end) then that means the average air traffic controller makes at least 135k year cash! Pilots aren't even close to that on average. Airline pilots should be able to afford to buy a house in San Francisco, Lax, Sea, San, NY, Bos, etc just like all the doctors, lawyers, real estate agents, etc that live in those areas.

The guy who's friend was toughing it out at Morgan Stanely for a year probably has a much greater salary to look forward to than any present day pilot. He doesn't have to wait 10-15 years to upgrade and then worry about his company tanking. I think it's high time we stand up and put an end to this grovelling bs attitude that we're all just lucky to have a job and (even more annoying) "at least we don't have to work for a living." Sorry for the rant.

 

[se1776]

I don't know why are you guys only talking about truck drivers
anybody in general make more money than pilot.
that's my point

The airline executives are richer and their poor pilots still stuck in the same
hole. Trying to pay for their training and barely making a living.
is not about people form other countries screwing things up.
Right now the airlines would not even offer you a job if you not a citizen.
So is not the foreigner working for pennies is you the US citizens.
I now you guys never going to admit that sad reality.
I think a regional airline job to make a living these days don’t even think about it.
You’ll need two or three jobs to live an average life.

My question is why spend $50,000 or $80,000 in training to make
$19,000 or even $30,000 a year.

What happen to the good old days when an airline pilot job was a luxury or at least a great job equal or at the same level of a doctor or a lawyer.
You know at least the respect a PROFESSIONAL individual deserves. That means fear Pay and the way of living.

A TSA employee makes more money and he has the right to screw up your life just because he has the authority over pilots.

I am not saying flying a plane is bad . I mean let these regional airline pay that low is what I mean WHY THE PAY IS SO LOW?

 

[prpjt]

.
I am not saying flying a plane is bad . I mean let these regional airline pay that low is what I mean WHY THE PAY IS SO LOW?

Why is pay so low? I think it's pretty simple. I'll use this analogy.

Let's say I have 3 guys willing to mow my lawn.

One guy is charging $200 because he has a masters degree in horticulture.

One guy is charging $125 because he thinks he's worth it.

One guy is charging $75 because he needs a job.

I let all 3 do the lawn one time, and they all do a reasonable job. I am going to use the $75 dollar guy until he get's fed up and goes to drive a truck.

I will not pay $125 to have my lawn mowed until there is nobody willing to do it for $75.

 

[pinkbush]

Why is pay so low? I think it's pretty simple. I'll use this analogy.

Let's say I have 3 guys willing to mow my lawn.

One guy is charging $200 because he has a masters degree in horticulture.

One guy is charging $125 because he thinks he's worth it.

One guy is charging $75 because he needs a job.

I let all 3 do the lawn one time, and they all do a reasonable job. I am going to use the $75 dollar guy until he get's fed up and goes to drive a truck.

I will not pay $125 to have my lawn mowed until there is nobody willing to do it for $75.

Thats where I come in. I'll mow it for 50

 

[erj-145mech]

Just wait until management figures out how to outsource airplane driving. The official language on ATC will be Hindu.

 

[viper548]

Just wait until management figures out how to outsource airplane driving. The official language on ATC will be Hindu.

People will tolorate calling customer service and getting India, but I don't think they would tolorate the pilots being outsourced (at least I hope they wouldn't).

 

[Prop2Jet]

J bar, THIS ONE IS 4 U!

Thanks for your professionalism and true erudition regarding my comments. I do not think you grasped the point of my posting. It clearly shows that during a career in the airlines you will make more money, even more than a truck driver. Not once did I ever state that I enjoy nor did I ever condone making the wages I am earning now. Do I think it sucks, yes. Do I feel underpaid? Yes. BUT, I know that I can't get something for nothing and it will require years of work to get their.

As for your comments regarding my self valuation, you are far from correct. I have seen both sides of the pay scale and with an advanced degree I have the option to pursue again the buck instead of actually enjoying my job. There are some things in life that are just more important to me than the tax bracket I fit into. Judging by your posts and your attitude I can tell you are young and do not yet realize what commitment and sacrifice will bring you in the end.

I could sit here and call you a rash of bad names which demean you but as I can tell this would only incite more negativity. If I am a moron, by the way that is correct spelling not MORRON, (funny how that works) then I guess after I get my "2 hours" so you say, I will figure it all out just like you. O wait your still flying, so what is it I am supposed to figure out?

P2J

 

[Damich]

P2J,

You are a moron! I have a feeling you will be singing a different tune when you hit age 60 and have nothing to show for all your hard work. Don't sell yourself short!

 

[Prop2Jet]

So what are we supposed to do?

Obviously I am new, and my perspective is not/has not been warped yet.

So what is the solution to our low wages?

 

[Prop2Jet]

Back to Milwaukee's Best.....

 

[theo]

Thats where I come in. I'll mow it for 50

I'll take 45 and throw in free trimming! LOL!

 

[NYCPilot]

Pilot salaries will probably never go back up to the historically high rates they used to command. Although you may wish to compare the pilot profession to that of a doctor, lawyer or any other high-paid professional which it ranks along with, the compensation will not achieve parity. This is due to the economic, psychological and sociological dynamics that govern the aviation industry and all those who work in it.

Airline travel is not what it used to be, either is being a doctor for that matter either. They are short-changed all the time with the increase in HMO's and the insurance companies stingier payment plans. It's becoming less economically feasible to attend medical school with the lowered salaries and increased malpractice insurance premiums.

Airline travel will increase in the coming years. I'm pretty sure of that. We've become more global and flying has become more routine. The economy is cyclical. REGARDLESS of who is in the Whitehouse. There will be more flying jobs, but pilots will be paid less. They’ve realized that this is a profession that can and will be exploited.

 

[pinkbush]

I'll take 45 and throw in free trimming! LOL!

We lower the bar together my friend!!

 

[Panda]

Call me crazy but I just don't think 90k is anything to write home about these days. That should be on the low end of fo pay. We should be in the 200-300k range for an airline captain. I keep bringing this up on the boards but the AVERAGE ATC pay is 165k per year including benefits. Now lets assume benefits are worth 30k/year (high end) then that means the average air traffic controller makes at least 135k year cash! Pilots aren't even close to that on average. Airline pilots should be able to afford to buy a house in San Francisco, Lax, Sea, San, NY, Bos, etc just like all the doctors, lawyers, real estate agents, etc that live in those areas.

Dude,

Have you been paying attention to the state of the airline industry? Do you think that the current economics can stand to pay those type of salaries? The answer is no and you are seeing it in action and if an airline tried, another will take advantage of that prospective carrier's cost structure and take business away from it. Pilots made these salaries back in the days when they were in SHORT SUPPLY and the industry was GROWING. Right now we are plagued with excess capacity and with folks willing to become pilots by paying huge $$$ for training and or enrolling in these PFT contracts. Barries to entry to this profession are virtually non-existant, so long as you have $$$.

We are not Doctors or Lawyers nor can we compare our profession to theirs. And we are not FAA controllers (government job) For entry into those professions is better protected than ours. For example, our written pilot exams, such as the ATP, are a joke. Compare that to taking the Bar Exam or taking the USMLE. There are no GLEIM or ASA Pubs to pass these professional exams. If we had a real ATP or Commercial Pilot exam akin to what these professional exams demand we would not have as many certificated pilots in the work force, and the SHORT SUPPLY of these would fix our depressed wages.

This is what we, as professional pilots should focus on and what our unions should focus. The wages will fix themselves. Just look how the AMA does it for its Doctors.

Regards,

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Uhhh the JAA ATPL exams are no joke, but the bar is getting lower and lower in Europe (peeps paying for there A320/737 types left and right)

FD

 

[se1776]

Republic Airlines Gets FAA Certificate
Tuesday August 30, 4:44 pm ET
Republic Airlines Gets FAA Certificate; to Fly US Airways Express Passengers in September


INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Republic Airlines on Tuesday received an operating certificate from the Federal Aviation Administration, and said it expects to begin flying passengers for US Airways Express beginning in September.
The unit of Republic Airways Holdings Inc. said it plans to operate 28 aircraft for US Airways.

"This is an important milestone in the development of our company and will allow us to continue to grow and expand our business with the Embraer 170/190 family of aircraft," said Bryan Bedford, Republic Airways chairman, president and chief executive, in a statement.

Shares of Republic Airways closed down 19 cents at $13.09 on the Nasdaq



190 for 19,000 a year. great job

 

[BE200Driver]

190 for 19,000 a year. great job

And who is forcing these jobs on our pilots? Last I knew this was a volunteer career. As long as guys keep taking the low pay it will only get worse. And to those who agree to the low pay and want to complain about it a year later........ STOP THAT!


Typical pussification. We all want to blame someone or something else. If you get into aviation for a living at a given payrate, then that was your decission and only you are responsible for that choice.

 

[GINCHBLASTER]

I will not pay $125 to have my lawn mowed until there is nobody willing to do it for $75.

And unfortunately that day will never come.

 

[49W]

Thats where I come in. I'll mow it for 50

Wait, I'll pay you to let me drive that nice new lawnmower around.

 

[Well-hung Start]

It should be ILLEGAL for anyone to make more money than a Delta pilot!

 

[Salty Pirate]

J bar, THIS ONE IS 4 U!

Thanks for your professionalism and true erudition regarding my comments. I do not think you grasped the point of my posting. It clearly shows that during a career in the airlines you will make more money, even more than a truck driver. Not once did I ever state that I enjoy nor did I ever condone making the wages I am earning now. Do I think it sucks, yes. Do I feel underpaid? Yes. BUT, I know that I can't get something for nothing and it will require years of work to get their.

As for your comments regarding my self valuation, you are far from correct. I have seen both sides of the pay scale and with an advanced degree I have the option to pursue again the buck instead of actually enjoying my job. There are some things in life that are just more important to me than the tax bracket I fit into. Judging by your posts and your attitude I can tell you are young and do not yet realize what commitment and sacrifice will bring you in the end.

I could sit here and call you a rash of bad names which demean you but as I can tell this would only incite more negativity. If I am a moron, by the way that is correct spelling not MORRON, (funny how that works) then I guess after I get my "2 hours" so you say, I will figure it all out just like you. O wait your still flying, so what is it I am supposed to figure out?

P2J

P2J,

No you really are an idiot. If you have an advanced degree why would you not demand more for your services. I bet you advanced degree is in something aviation related. You are a classic case study in sjs. Those big buck figures you post are IF you make it to a major, If the contracts at majors are worth a crap when you get there, IF,IF,IF. The reason we are in the situation that we are is that people like you put up with the pay because they love the job. F------ing ridiculous. The sacrafice that you talk about should be made flight instructing, slinging freight, pipeline patrol, skydivers, and anyother crap job that you can think of. Not at the airlines. You don't have enough time to have a opinion or perspective. Pop your cherry and then we will talk.

p.s. please don't bother to point out any typos or spelling errors because no one cares.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

If you have an advanced degree why would you not demand more for your services.

Why don't you spend the rest of your life DEMANDING higher pay and let the rest of us know how it turns out for you. Ignorant @ss.

 

[FreedomAList]

I've been doing the regional gig for almost ten years now, and I make 80K per year.

I love the job though, and truth be told, I'd do it for less (50k is my personal bottom limit).

If I wanted to make lots of $$$ and be miserable, I'd have stayed in law school. For all those who only care about $$$, I'd strongly suggest you look into another line of work.

For those who just want to fly, decide what's the lowest you care to work for, be realistic about what the airline future looks like (it's gonna get worse before -- IF -- it gets better), and decide if OTJ happiness is worth more than your paycheck. For some it is, for some it ain't.

.02 cents.

 

[g159av8tor]

I've been doing the regional gig for almost ten years now, and I make 80K per year.

I love the job though, and truth be told, I'd do it for less (50k is my personal bottom limit).

If I wanted to make lots of $$$ and be miserable, I'd have stayed in law school. For all those who only care about $$$, I'd strongly suggest you look into another line of work.

For those who just want to fly, decide what's the lowest you care to work for, be realistic about what the airline future looks like (it's gonna get worse before -- IF -- it gets better), and decide if OTJ happiness is worth more than your paycheck. For some it is, for some it ain't.

.02 cents.

Just imagine, if there weren't people like you in this industry willing to fly a mainline-sized aircraft for regional pay, we'd all be richer and better employed. But you HAVE to fly. I have so many more priorities in my life including famliy and my self respect as a professional than pay too.

Anyway, the employment satisfaction versus pay debate is not the scope of my post; it is rather, I enjoy seeing the FNGs and the guys with a few years under the belt doing the profession duke it out. Up and comers should pay attention to their seniors (except to the above qouted azz and a few others)and learn a thing or two and keep self respect in the back of their minds... or we are all F-ed.

Tailwinds...

 

[Salty Pirate]

Just imagine, if there weren't people like you in this industry willing to fly a mainline-sized aircraft for regional pay, we'd all be richer and better employed. But you HAVE to fly. I have so many more priorities in my life including famliy and my self respect as a professional than pay too.

Anyway, the employment satisfaction versus pay debate is not the scope of my post; it is rather, I enjoy seeing the FNGs and the guys with a few years under the belt doing the profession duke it out. Up and comers should pay attention to their seniors (except to the above qouted azz and a few others)and learn a thing or two and keep self respect in the back of their minds... or we are all F-ed.

Tailwinds...

amen brother,

flying is so far down on my list of priorities that I need a GI scope to find it. The only way I can respect myself is to do cdo's, fly 30 hrs a month and get paid for 80. That way my hourly rate is respectable. Then I call in sick 3 times a year to get some extra vacation time. Pretty sad that the only way I feel right about my job is by dodging flights and working the system. When the rest of you clowns figure out that the pilot gig doesn't boost your game any and that you still can't score chicks and the glow in your parents eyes dims and they get sick of subsidizing there 27 year old kids career and ban your piehole from the icebox a paycheck might start to look appealing. Wait I already know the answer, I just love to fly!!

Dorks

 

[Nindiri]

I've been in the industry plenty long enough to know what's in my best interests; 15 years total, about half at an airline, and I'm quite happy with my 90K and 16 days off. I suppose I could have gone into a different occupation like medicine or whatever, but why would I want the stress and long hours that go with them? My job is easy, I never take work home, I have the time and ability to travel wherever I want for free. Life is good.

You say I should refuse to work for so little? I should drive a truck instead? lol Sorry, but I didn't choose this profession to make it better for someone else; I chose it to make myself happy. Not to worry, though, if you're bitter about your career expectations of 300K pilot pay fading, there are still plenty of those glamorous 50K plumber jobs.

 

[Salty Pirate]

I don't think anyone should make 300k a year either thats insane and unsustainable. I've been in the industry long enough, I don't feel that its right to take a 40% paycut from flying a 310 when you move to the airlines. My beef is with the fresh off the boat guys that are willing to whore themselves out for nothing to avoid building time and experience in GA. That is what lowers the bar and keeps us perpetually bent over

 

[Nindiri]

Unfortunately, from their perspective it makes sense. Why spend several years flight instructing for 15K or flying beat up Barons around at night for not much more just to build experience wnen you could take a part 121 jet job for 18K and move up the career ladder that much faster?