President of Regional Airline Assoc. says regional pilot pay "fair and reasonable"

[pilotyip]

Hope not

Holy crap! Has REZ got to you?

Certainly hope not, how would I know?

 

[difete]

The Walmartization of the Airlines.

 

[ualdriver]

Mr. Cohen-

I just wanted to drop you a brief note concerning your public comments made to the media and in testimony to public officials.

I find a couple of your public comments disingenous at best and outright lies at worst. I'm sure you have many years "in the business" as do I, so I won't waste time listing my extensive background in the Part 121 world.

First of all, you stated that regional airline pay is "fair and reasonable?" Certainly you are joking? I don't know if you've ever tried to live on regional airline pilot wages (I have) but I can assure you that they are neither fair nor reasonable, especially considering that the typical regional airline pilot has the debt associated with a 4 year degree and probably $50,000+ in flight training expenses. Further, if Colgan's compensation was "fair and reasonable," they would have been able to attract more qualified pilots than the pilots found in the cockpit of the fateful Buffalo crash that has attracted so much attention. You and I both know that there has been a large oversupply of pilots in this country for about 2 decades now and airlines like Colgan could have EASILY hired pilots with thousands of hours of experience had they simply paid a reasonable wage. Instead, they decided to work "on the cheap" and decided to hire and retain one pilot with a history of checkride failures and another with minimal experience. Yes, Mr. Cohen, pay at regionals like Colgan are so "fair and reasonable," that the two pilots in this example crash were the best, brightest, and most experienced the industry had to offer. Or perhaps, maybe you are mistaken, and only the inexperienced and those with "checkered" pasts are the only ones that accept employment at bottom-feeding airlines like Colgan with their "fair and reasonable" wages?

I also heard you state that there is "one level of safety" between the regionals and majors. Considering your experience in the business, cetainly that statement was a mistake as well? Again, you and I both know that there has NEVER been one level of safety between the majors and the regionals. There has been, perhaps, "in theory" but certainly not in reality. The hiring of extremely inexperienced pilots in order to "save a buck" aside, where is the RAA's public statements DEMANDING that all of its members have FOQA and ASRS programs, for example? Certainly if there was "one level of safety," the RAA could have demanded that years ago but again, you and I both know that will only happen when enough tombstones have been laid. I could go on and on, but I don't want to bore your secretary any further as I'm sure you are well insulated from the realities the rest of your constituent's employees deal with every day. One level of safety makes for nice soundbites though, huh Mr. Cohen?

In closing, I have a suggestion for the RAA. With all due respect, I think you are poor representative for your organization, considering the many statements you have made to the media and in testimony. I would suggest that the RAA do what many of your member airline do.....furlough you and replace you with someone fresh out of business college with little or no experience in the real world. Pay him $20,000 - $25,000 per year (certainly a fair and reasonable wage- I mean paramedics make that much!) and save your members some money on their membership fees. Certainly if it "works" for your member airlines (well, except for Colgan) certainly it will work for the RAA?

Regards,
xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Who the F! is this guy!? Been in this "industry" for 8 years and I have no idea what the regional airline association is, but lately this ****************************** is saying all the wrong things that would help ANY regional.

My thoughts exactly. Who and what is the regional airline association?

Guys... with respect you need a smack down......

Your airline career is determined by others such as Cohen and May (May is President of the ATA). If Cohen is saying this publicaly, then he is taking all of the PAC money given to him by the regional airlines that are members of the RAA and talking directly to congressmen about keeping pay low. Where do you think the regional airlines get the money to give to the RAA?

They get it from the revenue generated by pilots who work for fair and reasonable wages.

If you don't get it... here is some help.... the money that you generate for your company is used against you to keep your wages low. The more you are paid, the less money airlines have to lobby congress to keep you pay low. The harder you work at low wages, the more money is generated to be used against you.

Said simply.... you are paying for your political demise....



The RAA was formed in 1975 to lobby congress for regional airlines.

The ATA was formed in 1936 to lobby congress for legacy airlines.

ALPA was formed in 1931 to lobby congress. The ATA was formed in part to counter ALPA's effectiveness.....


The fight for your poltical career has and will be on CapHill......

You can be shocked and angry when tools like Cohen make statements... or you can get involved... understand how the game is played... and be a player instead of being played.....

Fight back or be a tool..... the choice is yours..

 

[Dubya]

I have a friend named Vinny that makes a very respectable wage. Maybe I could arrange a meeting with him and Cohen.


W

 

[hmmurdock]

Just playing "Devil's Advocate" here but, how long does it take to get to one of those positions and how long do you have to slug it out as a cashier/burger flipper/fry cook/floor mopper?

Greetings...Most large restaurant chains have their own mgt training program which is on the job type training and approximately 2 to 3 months long for someone with a degree or similar experience. My prior life was working for Darden restaurants (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Bahama Breeze, Smokey Bones) and it is a good company with great benes. A person can also work their way up as an hourly employee which takes a lot longer. Promotions are of course merit based, but it would'nt take that long to advance, maybe 3 to 6 years or so depending on company growth. Take care

 

[Tim47SIP]

My question is who the heck made this organization the spokesman for regional pilots. I guess congress could have easily brought in the TSA Chief and asked him the same questions. Talk about incompetent bafoons!!

 

[xjhawk]

who is this roger cohen? what is his email? what is his address? what is his phone number? every regional pilot should bombard him with calls, mail email telling him he is full of ******************** and should not represent anyone who is or ever was a regional pilot.

 

[xjhawk]

Contact

Regional Airline Association
2025 M Street, NW
Suite 800
Washington, DC 20036-3309
Tel: 202/367-1170
Fax: 202/367-2170
[email protected]


let the fun begin, tell these a holes what we think of them

 

[Poahi]

My question is who the heck made this organization the spokesman for regional pilots.

No one. He is not a spokesman for pilots. He is part of the RAA - Regional Airline Association. That is an airline trade organization, not a pilot advocacy group.

http://www.raa.org/

 

[doh]

http://www.raa.org/index.php

Mission Statement RAA represents North American regional airlines, and the manufacturers of products and services supporting the regional airline industry, before the Congress, DOT, FAA and other federal agencies.

With more than 15,000 regional airline flights every day, more than one of every five domestic airline passengers now travel on regionals. Operating more than 2,700 aircraft, the regional fleet comprises about nearly 40 percent of the US commercial passenger fleet. Most notably, regional airlines serve 650 communities across the country and in 442 of those communities -- 70 percent of the US-regional airlines provide the only scheduled service.

Founded in 1975, Washington, DC-based RAA also provides a wide array of technical, government relations and public relations services for regional airlines. The association's 43 member airlines and 305 associate members represent the key decision makers of this vital sector of the commercial aviation industry.

All that Bull schyte and they still didn't say who they are and what they do! Thay are the union that represents managment. Air Line Pilot's Association, Regional Airline (Management) Association (RAMAss). They represent management's best interests. They get together in convention to let their management members know who is getting what compensation (pattern bargaining), who has handled the union in the least cost manner and how, and who has gotten their POI to compromise safety and how. Roger Cohen is their #1 Empty Suit of the moment.

 

[aewanabe]

So are all of you who are outraged contacting Mr. Cohen and the RAA? Go to Senate.gov and email the committee members. Ualdriver's comments were far more elegant than mine; the point is this is the time to DO SOMETHING! All the contact info for Mr. Cohen, the RAA, and the Senate comittee is easily available on line.

Mr. Cohen has comitted perjury, and is being paid and directed to do so. Some of the crappy issues in our industry are coming to light, and he is trying to re-bury the turd. Don't let it happen without a fight.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What about empowering the politcal forces that are on your side to counter the poltical forces of the RAA and Cohen that are working against you.... money talks.... BS walks....

 

[BOOZENEWS]

What about empowering the politcal forces that are on your side to counter the poltical forces of the RAA and Cohen that are working against you.... money talks.... BS walks....

Absolutely!

Why don't all pilots contribute 1% of they're gross to ALPA's PAC. If each one of them did that, we'd have a lot more political clout than the other side.

Get busy people!

 

[ualdriver]

https://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopMo...View.aspx?itemid=1378&ModuleId=1068&TabId=202

There's the link for ALPA-PAC if you want to contribute.......

I'll be the very first to say that ALPA is an imperfect organization run by imperfect people. However, I'll take that over nothing. Under circumstances like this, where we may see some serious changes in legislation that we might actually be able to directly influence, I'm glad that I've thrown the PAC something in the past that hopefully got some guys elected that will listen to ALPA.

ALPA-PAC plug over.

P.S. I don't contribute 1% a month but even 5, 10, 20 bucks a month helps the PAC.

 

[Jar Jar]

i dont understand why the RAA/ATA oppose pilot wage increases.

its like they are programmed to think wages=bad.

Really? I mean, if all companies have the same wage standards, isn't that a level playing field? Wouldn't they all be forced to increase fares by comparable ammounts, leaving competition intact?

 

[pilotyip]

Won't Work

i dont understand why the RAA/ATA oppose pilot wage increases.

its like they are programmed to think wages=bad.

Really? I mean, if all companies have the same wage standards, isn't that a level playing field? Wouldn't they all be forced to increase fares by comparable ammounts, leaving competition intact?

Under regulation this would work. Under de-reg once costs went up in the form of higher wages at mature airlines, new airlines would appear. Mature airlines have pilots in the 10+ pay scale. New airlines even on the same pay scale have no pilots above year one, thus they have lower costs and can sell below the competition. The best way to rasie pilot wages is to restrict the number of pilots. The consumer shopping on the internet would buy the cheap ticket. BTW The Gov't could mandate that to hold an ATP you must go through a process like applying to a service academy. You must have an ACT of 29+, or SAT 1280+, top 10% of your HS class, completed Eagle scout award, a four college degree in hard science or engineering with a at least a 3.5 GPA, comunity service of feeding the old people in a nursing home. I know this reduce the number of pilots in the cockpits today. I also know it has nothing to do with flying an airplane.

 

[JustaNumber]

I agree with pilotyip. However, instead of all those things he suggested, I think one very simple reg change would do the trick: an ATP is required to be an airline pilot. It's simple, logical, and difficult for RAMAss (that's classic, whoever came up with that one) to argue for specific relief from, when pilot shortages actually begin.

Does anyone know if ALPA is specifically pushing this?

 

[gunfyter]

The best way to rasie pilot wages is to restrict the number of pilots. The consumer shopping on the internet would buy the cheap ticket. BTW The Gov't could mandate that to hold an ATP you must go through a process like applying to a service academy. You must have an ACT of 29+, or SAT 1280+, top 10% of your HS class, completed Eagle scout award, a four college degree in hard science or engineering with a at least a 3.5 GPA, comunity service of feeding the old people in a nursing home. I know this reduce the number of pilots in the cockpits today. I also know it has nothing to do with flying an airplane.

Or just have a National Union that predetermines how many ATPs can be issued in any one year ... just like the AMA restricts how many people can be accepted to Medical School.

Also limit Duty time to 40 hrs in any rolling 5 day period ... with 2 mandatory 24 hr periods off duty every week.