Preferential Bidding

[Aviator007]

Just went into effect at Pinnacle and it doesn't look good for the junior guys. Recently awarded line holders are going back on reserve and those on reserve (like me) can plan on being there much longer than expected. Just wondering what other people out there thought about it.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

PBS blows

PBS totally blows. If it isn't already, it will become a total concession. When there is extra flying to be done, the company just changes the parameters and poof, every one gets junior manned without the pay. Good luck.

 

[mavdog]

So what's the story, did ALPA negotiate a side letter to implement PBS? What did you guys get in return?

 

[SEVEN]

Mesaba will be getting PBS sometime in 2008 per the "new" contract. Not looking forward to it.

 

[sweptback]

So what's the story, did ALPA negotiate a side letter to implement PBS? What did you guys get in return?

Yeah... exactly. With Pinnacle being in Section 6, why would the MEC even begin to entertain such a discussion? PBS is a huge concession, as the mainline folks have found out.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Uugh, I hope we don't get it at Colgan, as it seems we are starting to share more and more things with our PCL bretheren.

www.alpa.org/colgan

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Mesaba will be getting PBS sometime in 2008 per the "new" contract. Not looking forward to it.

It starts Jan 1, 2008. Start stocking the Vasoline cause as we all know Jinglepants keeps all of the company supply for his own personal pocket pool time.

 

[SkyNation]

in a poll conducted at SkyWest among the pilot group, respondents indicated that their schedules were better with PBS than with hard lines by more than 2 to 1.

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

 

[bizzum]

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

Well I can tell you that PBS is my companies wet dream, and thanks to our union, it will stay that way.

 

[flyguy81]

16-18 days off and 87 hr lines with pbs at chq...not bad i thought, but i've never done it the other way

 

[Fred Rogers]

in a poll conducted at SkyWest among the pilot group, respondents indicated that their schedules were better with PBS than with hard lines by more than 2 to 1.

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

I have heard SkyWest people complain about PBS mostly. I think it mostly has to do with the "paramaters" that the company sets in. I.E. you bid vacation and it is set to assign a trip on both ends of it, rather than a hard line which can extend your vacation???

Why couldn't you put "no PBS" in your contract? I think that would be fairly efficient at keeping it away if you didn't want it, unless you do not have a union / contract in which case you get whatever the company wants.

www.alpa.org/colgan

 

[DoinTime]

So what's the story, did ALPA negotiate a side letter to implement PBS? What did you guys get in return?

We negotiated to let the company implement pref bid during our 1999 contract. We received a $250,000 negotiating credit for it.

 

[trip]

If you want days off on either side of your vaction just bid them as off days> XXvvvvvXX

 

[Fred Rogers]

If you want days off on either side of your vaction just bid them as off days> XXvvvvvXX

Yeah, I've never used it, just repeating what I heard.

 

[DoinTime]

If you want days off on either side of your vaction just bid them as off days> XXvvvvvXX

The problem is when you run pref bid with critically short staffing. You get your vacation but the computer still builds you a min time off 90 hour line. In a well staffed operation pref bid works pretty good. We haven't been well staffed at PCL in over 5 years though.

 

[DrewBlows]

We negotiated to let the company implement pref bid during our 1999 contract. We received a $250,000 negotiating credit for it.

You got ripped off.

 

[trip]

I agree the computer will start filling in scheds from the bottom of the list. FO's get hit the hardest.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Skywest pilots prefer PBS 2 to 1? That didn't happen to be a SAPA poll did it? The only other explanation is that the poll was taken when PBS was first implemented. In an effort to trick the pilot group into thinking that they were getting a good deal, the company sugar coated the schedules for a couple of months. Skynation must be spending his time hanging out with the spin kings DL, DA and JB.

 

[SkyNation]

I don't remember when the poll was taken. I don't know DL, DA or JB from Adam.

The only pissing and moaning I've heard about PBS has been on the company boards. I've never flown with someone who didn't say that their life was better with PBS.

 

[DoinTime]

I've never flown with someone who didn't say that their life was better with PBS.

What percentage of pilots even have used both systems extensively? The guys who used line bid for a long time are probably very senior hence pref bid works for them regardless.

 

[Nightrain_080]

in a poll conducted at SkyWest among the pilot group, respondents indicated that their schedules were better with PBS than with hard lines by more than 2 to 1.

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

Yeah sure now that 10 days off for junior people is a standard line with PBS vs 12 days off on a hard line was the worst it could be. PBS still does not give time off like they promised it would. Set up a new poll after over a year of forced flying for the qualified pilots in the 700/900 are still being forced to fly these lines when they could hold a real nice 200 line. See how your new poll turns out. Unless your in the top 25% then PBS is a horrible mess when it comes to protecting any senority. ALPA isn't at Skywest yet so lets now jump to conclusions on what they can and can't do when they aren't here.

Tell me the difference between a 10 day off regular line and a 10 day off reserve line?

PBS is a concession and it has done almost no good at SkyWest for pilots.

What base are you in and approx what number are you bidding as FO or CA?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Yeah sure now that 10 days off for junior people is a standard line with PBS vs 12 days off on a hard line was the worst it could be. PBS still does not give time off like they promised it would. Set up a new poll after over a year of forced flying for the qualified pilots in the 700/900 are still being forced to fly these lines when they could hold a real nice 200 line. See how your new poll turns out. Unless your in the top 25% then PBS is a horrible mess when it comes to protecting any senority. ALPA isn't at Skywest yet so lets now jump to conclusions on what they can and can't do when they aren't here.

Tell me the difference between a 10 day off regular line and a 10 day off reserve line?

PBS is a concession and it has done almost no good at SkyWest for pilots.

What base are you in and approx what number are you bidding as FO or CA?

PBS sucks even if you're in the top 25%! I'm in the top 5% and still get forced pairings every single bid period, along with less days off for less credit than prior to PBS...crew sked has to put some decent pairings in the bid, or it doesn't matter how senior you are!!!

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What kind of input did the 9E group have in the construction/oversight of the parameters?

 

[RP170]

16-18 days off and 87 hr lines with pbs at chq...not bad i thought, but i've never done it the other way

Agreed. 17 days off this month with a PC check. I can't remember the last time I had less than 14-15 days off in a month. I've found you just can't be too picky with what you request from the PBS system.

This is about the only good thing that RAH offers.

 

[John Pennekamp]

in a poll conducted at SkyWest among the pilot group, respondents indicated that their schedules were better with PBS than with hard lines by more than 2 to 1.

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

The Skywest pilots think their management can do no wrong? Imagine that! Just good little "bees in the beehive".

 

[airjackson]

Just went into effect at Pinnacle and it doesn't look good for the junior guys. Recently awarded line holders are going back on reserve and those on reserve (like me) can plan on being there much longer than expected. Just wondering what other people out there thought about it.

When prefbid was introduced for a trial period at our airline, I was a junior FO on reserve. With the Prefbid awards, I consistently got a line and more days off. It really is all in the specifics of the agreement and software.

 

[Fred Rogers]

and software.

Pilots should control the paramaters.

 

[Airline RC]

Yeah, I've never used it, just repeating what I heard.

I heard it in the crew lounge also, so it must be OK for me to be PISSED about it.

 

[Fred Rogers]

I heard it in the crew lounge also, so it must be OK for me to be PISSED about it.

Hey if it sucks, then I don't want it, but I've got to get a say in the matter first.

www.alpa.org/colgan

 

[stlflyguy]

When prefbid was introduced for a trial period at our airline, I was a junior FO on reserve. With the Prefbid awards, I consistently got a line and more days off. It really is all in the specifics of the agreement and software.

Exactly. No work rules coupled with PBS would mean pure he!!. PBS is only as good as the work rules that go with it.

stlflyguy