Preferential Bidding

[Nightrain_080]

in a poll conducted at SkyWest among the pilot group, respondents indicated that their schedules were better with PBS than with hard lines by more than 2 to 1.

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

Yeah sure now that 10 days off for junior people is a standard line with PBS vs 12 days off on a hard line was the worst it could be. PBS still does not give time off like they promised it would. Set up a new poll after over a year of forced flying for the qualified pilots in the 700/900 are still being forced to fly these lines when they could hold a real nice 200 line. See how your new poll turns out. Unless your in the top 25% then PBS is a horrible mess when it comes to protecting any senority. ALPA isn't at Skywest yet so lets now jump to conclusions on what they can and can't do when they aren't here.

Tell me the difference between a 10 day off regular line and a 10 day off reserve line?

PBS is a concession and it has done almost no good at SkyWest for pilots.

What base are you in and approx what number are you bidding as FO or CA?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Yeah sure now that 10 days off for junior people is a standard line with PBS vs 12 days off on a hard line was the worst it could be. PBS still does not give time off like they promised it would. Set up a new poll after over a year of forced flying for the qualified pilots in the 700/900 are still being forced to fly these lines when they could hold a real nice 200 line. See how your new poll turns out. Unless your in the top 25% then PBS is a horrible mess when it comes to protecting any senority. ALPA isn't at Skywest yet so lets now jump to conclusions on what they can and can't do when they aren't here.

Tell me the difference between a 10 day off regular line and a 10 day off reserve line?

PBS is a concession and it has done almost no good at SkyWest for pilots.

What base are you in and approx what number are you bidding as FO or CA?

PBS sucks even if you're in the top 25%! I'm in the top 5% and still get forced pairings every single bid period, along with less days off for less credit than prior to PBS...crew sked has to put some decent pairings in the bid, or it doesn't matter how senior you are!!!

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

What kind of input did the 9E group have in the construction/oversight of the parameters?

 

[RP170]

16-18 days off and 87 hr lines with pbs at chq...not bad i thought, but i've never done it the other way

Agreed. 17 days off this month with a PC check. I can't remember the last time I had less than 14-15 days off in a month. I've found you just can't be too picky with what you request from the PBS system.

This is about the only good thing that RAH offers.

 

[John Pennekamp]

in a poll conducted at SkyWest among the pilot group, respondents indicated that their schedules were better with PBS than with hard lines by more than 2 to 1.

and if you decide you don't want it, won't ALPA 'protect' you from it? that is what some here seem to believe.

The Skywest pilots think their management can do no wrong? Imagine that! Just good little "bees in the beehive".

 

[airjackson]

Just went into effect at Pinnacle and it doesn't look good for the junior guys. Recently awarded line holders are going back on reserve and those on reserve (like me) can plan on being there much longer than expected. Just wondering what other people out there thought about it.

When prefbid was introduced for a trial period at our airline, I was a junior FO on reserve. With the Prefbid awards, I consistently got a line and more days off. It really is all in the specifics of the agreement and software.

 

[Fred Rogers]

and software.

Pilots should control the paramaters.

 

[Airline RC]

Yeah, I've never used it, just repeating what I heard.

I heard it in the crew lounge also, so it must be OK for me to be PISSED about it.

 

[Fred Rogers]

I heard it in the crew lounge also, so it must be OK for me to be PISSED about it.

Hey if it sucks, then I don't want it, but I've got to get a say in the matter first.

www.alpa.org/colgan

 

[stlflyguy]

When prefbid was introduced for a trial period at our airline, I was a junior FO on reserve. With the Prefbid awards, I consistently got a line and more days off. It really is all in the specifics of the agreement and software.

Exactly. No work rules coupled with PBS would mean pure he!!. PBS is only as good as the work rules that go with it.

stlflyguy

 

[Beergut]

I heard it in the crew lounge also, so it must be OK for me to be PISSED about it.

Are you the same Airline RC that used to post on the AOL boards a few years ago talking of "building the armada?"

 

[trip]

PBS sucks even if you're in the top 25%! I'm in the top 5% and still get forced pairings every single bid period, along with less days off for less credit than prior to PBS...crew sked has to put some decent pairings in the bid, or it doesn't matter how senior you are!!!

If your in the top 5% and cant bid a descent line then you dont know what your doing or bidding unrealistic lines. Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

 

[indianboy7]

PBS will be tricky for you folks for a while. The biggest problem with it is that you have to learn how to use it properly. Some of the bigger problems at skywest were caused by people bidding improperly or being too restrictive with their bids. Just because you have choices doesn't mean you can ask for everything you want and get it...even if you're in the top 5.

I screwed up 2 months worth of bids, then spent some time reading all the documentation that's available to us. After that, being in the middle of the list, i was holding 14 or more days off with at least one 4 or 5 day off stretch every month.

If people don't spend the time to learn it, the program will bite you in the nards every time....learn it and learn to manipulate it.....it's the only way...

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

The problem is when you run pref bid with critically short staffing. You get your vacation but the computer still builds you a min time off 90 hour line. In a well staffed operation pref bid works pretty good. We haven't been well staffed at PCL in over 5 years though.

Plus the union has no balls.

The company does whatever it wants. Pref Bid, Colgan scope, you name it. "We'll file a grievance."

Let's shut the place down for a day and see how quickly things change to our favor. In the meantime, STFU ALPA!

 

[TurboAWD]

DS, you are an idiot. STFU ALPA? How about STFU DirtySanchez. I've got an idea, why don't you (and anyone you can convince it is a good idea) refuse to come to work one day next month and tell mgmt that it is because of pref bid. Enjoy your new career as a fry cook.

What commitiee are you on? When was the last time you were at a LEC meeting?

That what I thought. STFU.

Turbo

 

[doug_or]

Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

beats this 5 on 2 off bs.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

DS, you are an idiot. STFU ALPA? How about STFU DirtySanchez. I've got an idea, why don't you (and anyone you can convince it is a good idea) refuse to come to work one day next month and tell mgmt that it is because of pref bid. Enjoy your new career as a fry cook.

What commitiee are you on? When was the last time you were at a LEC meeting?

That what I thought. STFU.

Turbo

I was at the past two LEC meetings. Does "we can't disclose the details, but will let you know when more information becomes availabe" sound familiar? The free food is great, but no progress is ever made...

I have other career options. This particular job doesn't mean squat to me. I could care less if the place shut down.

Why would you tell anyone you were taking the day off for Pref Bid? An organized Pref Bid Appreciation Day (Sick out) would work wonders.

When is the last time any union rep returned a phone call, an email, or stood up to abusive policies? I can't remember. Why would I waste my time being on a committee? The plumbers union has more power than ALPA.

So you- STFU.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If your in the top 5% and cant bid a descent line then you dont know what your doing or bidding unrealistic lines. Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

Um, yeah...or maybe I'm in the most senior domicile, and even though I'm in the top 5% systemwide, that doesn't put me in the top 5% here! I don't think it should matter what base you're in, there should be enough decent pairings to get a quality line with over 2 decades of seniority! Prior to PBS, someone senior would never get a line with even slose to the same days off as reserve...now it happens a lot with forced pairings(since we always seem to be short here)!!

 

[HelloNewman]

PBS sucks even if you're in the top 25%! I'm in the top 5% and still get forced pairings every single bid period, along with less days off for less credit than prior to PBS...crew sked has to put some decent pairings in the bid, or it doesn't matter how senior you are!!!

What you need to do is attend a few PBS feasability sessions and learn to bid properly! A PN isn't a junior man it is a bid failure. Learn to bid properly and feasibly and I assure you that the days of the PN will be gone forever.

What do you wanna do go back to the old system? Same boring trips all month? Having to bid for weekdays off when your kids birthday falls on a weekday even though you can hold weekends off? I have seen some of the lines at other regionals. It is the same boring mundane 4 on 3 off schedule that makes you want to kill yourself. Ya they can keep their crap hard lines ill take what I have thank you.

If your in the top 5% and cant bid a descent line then you dont know what your doing or bidding unrealistic lines. Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

Yes excellent points. So lets see the majority of pilots polled were in favor of PBS 2 to 1. The pilots that did not participate in the poll have no right to whine about it. The majority indicated hands down PBS was far superior. Sorry I just do not want to go back to the boring mundane hell of 4 on 3 off and the same damn trip every month. I hardly bid hardlines at all but that was still enough to drive me insane.

Again the top 5% need to get off their lazy keisters and attend a PBS feasibility tour when it comes to town. I promise everyone who learns how to avoid bid failures will never see another PN again. If you do not bid enough hours or realistically then your bid is destined to fail.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

What you need to do is attend a few PBS feasability sessions and learn to bid properly! A PN isn't a junior man it is a bid failure. Learn to bid properly and feasibly and I assure you that the days of the PN will be gone forever.

What do you wanna do go back to the old system? Same boring trips all month? Having to bid for weekdays off when your kids birthday falls on a weekday even though you can hold weekends off? I have seen some of the lines at other regionals. It is the same boring mundane 4 on 3 off schedule that makes you want to kill yourself. Ya they can keep their crap hard lines ill take what I have thank you.



Yes excellent points. So lets see the majority of pilots polled were in favor of PBS 2 to 1. The pilots that did not participate in the poll have no right to whine about it. The majority indicated hands down PBS was far superior. Sorry I just do not want to go back to the boring mundane hell of 4 on 3 off and the same damn trip every month. I hardly bid hardlines at all but that was still enough to drive me insane.

Again the top 5% need to get off their lazy keisters and attend a PBS feasibility tour when it comes to town. I promise everyone who learns how to avoid bid failures will never see another PN again. If you do not bid enough hours or realistically then your bid is destined to fail.

Hate to burst your kool-aide bubble, but the forced pairings are a CN code for "coverage"...and there is nothing you can do about those when they are forced on your schedule! I've actually gone over my bids with several different PBS trainers and have gotten the same poor results. I've even talked to KH about trying to get better results, but the bottom line is if the pairings we get to choose from aren't any good, then the lines you achieve can't be much good either!
Do you think it's realistic to want to get more than a day or 2 off more than a new hire on reserve???